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Assuming that there was liquid water on Mars
on the Fifth Day of Creation [the planets
were created on the Fourth Day], then it stands
to reason that the "waters" on Mars obeyed
God's command, and "brought forth life".
-- Prophezine.com
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A Scriptural Case for the Cessation of Spiritual Gifts
Posted on Monday, May 26 @ 12:37:24 PDT by Virgil |
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Bible-Touchstone submitted: "Cessationism, the close of the canon and completion of prophecy compliments fulfilled eschatology. A balanced view of the function of prophetic gifts in the first century saints, the centrality of faith, the importance of Scripture and sound doctrine is central to a proper view of cessationism. The only sufficient testimony of God is the Bible. Only faith in Jesus Christ as portrayed in the Bible sufficient knowledge of God. So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
A Scriptural Case for the Cessation of Spiritual Gifts
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
Hebrews 1:1-2 suggests that the Old Testament prophets were given the oracles of God in the past in many ways such as revelation through personal experience. But in the final days of revelation, God completed His speaking to a specific group of people through the incarnated Jesus Christ who alone bore witness to (John 5:19-47).
The Cessation of the Appointment of Apostles
The Old Testament prophets testified of Christ’s coming. The New Testament apostles testified about what Christ did and said after He came.
The apostles (Luke 1:1-3, Acts 1:8) were specifically eyewitnesses to Christ’s resurrection (Luke 24:44-49, Acts 1:21-22, 2:32, 3:15, 10:38-48, 13:30-31, 1 Corinthians 15:4-9, 1 John 1:1-4). Also see Isaiah 43:9-12. They were elected by Christ Himself (John 15:15-16). Paul also was the last apostle (1 Corinthians 15:8) appointed by revelation of the resurrected Christ. Paul knew that the procession of apostleship would end without succession (1 Corinthians 4:9).
Paul’s Unique Apostolic Authority
Even though his revelation of Christ was a personal visionary experience of the resurrected Christ, Paul was the first to deliver the Gospel given to him that bore witness to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3). Still, Paul was the least of the apostles since he was born one out of due time (1 Corinthians 15:8-9). He was not fit to be an apostle because he persecuted the Church (1 Corinthians 15:9). But Paul was made an apostle by God’s Grace to reveal God’s Grace (1 Corinthians 15:10). If today someone claims to be an apostle, then that would make Paul a false prophet since he claimed to be the last apostle (1 Corinthians 15:8).
Christ’s Sufficient Word
Christ has been sufficiently testified by His (Acts 15:18) works (Matthew 13:54, Mark 6:2, Luke 14:28-35, John 1:8-9, John 4:34, John 6:14, John 9:3-5, John 10:25-38, John 14:6-11, John 17, John 18:37, John 19:30, Romans 9:11, Romans 19:27-28, Hebrews 12:2, 1 Corinthians 3:9-11, Revelation 22:18), His physical resurrection (Acts 1:22, Acts 2:31-32, Acts 3:15, Acts 4:33, Acts 10:38-45, Acts 13:30-33, 1 Corinthians 15:1-9), the Old Testament (Matthew 26:56, Luke 24:27, Luke 24:44-45, John 5:39, Acts 17:2, Acts 17:11, Acts 18:28, Acts 28:23, Romans 1:2, Romans 1:9-20, Romans 15:4, Romans 16:25-26, 1 Corinthians 15:3, 2 Corinthians 3, 2 Timothy 3:13-16), the witnesses of the New Testament (Luke 2:17, Luke 7:22, Luke 10:22-24, Luke 24:48-49, John 1:7-8, John 1:12-15, Acts 1:8, Acts 20:24, Acts 26:16, 1 Corinthians 9:4, 1 Thessalonians 2:10, Hebrews 2:3-4, Hebrews 12:1-2, James 5:11, 1 John 1:1-4, 1 John 5:6-13, Revelation 1:19, Revelation 3:14, Revelation 11:7, Revelation 20:4), and the witness (Matthew 18:16, Matthew 24:14, John 5:31-38, John 15:27, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 1:13-16, 2 Timothy 2:2, 1 Peter 1:10-13, 1 Peter 5:1, 1 John 4:13-15, Revelation 11:3) of the Holy Spirit (John 14, John 15:26, John 16:17, Acts 5:32, Acts 15:8, Romans 8:16-18, Romans 9:1, 1 Corinthians 2:9-16, Hebrews 10:15-17).
The Cessation of Gifts in 1 Corinthians 13
1 Corinthians 13 does explicitly describe the "cessation" of prophetic gifts after that which is more perfect has come.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
The central theme of 1 Corinthians 13 is the preeminence of love in the inadequacy of the gifts. The gifts were important and effectual in their designated functions but were not as sufficient as love. In Paul’s detailed dissertation on spiritual gifts, he exhorts that love is most important. He expounds that prophecy is inadequate, the gifts of tongues shall cease, and the qualified mode of knowledge coupled by the gifts would vanish away. It is not a hyperbole; he uses three parables rhetorically elucidating this doctrine upon a central theme.
The inadequacy of the prophecy that would fail is defined by the context as prophecy in part. The knowledge to vanish away is defined by the context as knowing in part. The tongues that would cease is allegorized by the context as speaking as a child. The prophecy that is in part would be done away with when that which is perfect is come.
“That which is in part” [(the knowledge to vanish) 1 Corinthians 13:8] is coupled with childish things [(immature speaking, immature understanding, and immature thinking) 1 Corinthians 13:11] to be put away (1 Corinthians 13:10-11). “That which is in part” (1 Corinthians 13:10) is also coupled with looking in an obscure mirror in that time, defined as “knowing in part” (1 Corinthians 13:12). “That which is in part” is defined by the context as the knowledge which was then in part (1 Corinthians 13:9, 13:12).
“That which is perfect” {that which was to come (1 Corinthians 13:10) [then prophesied to be future (1 Corinthians 13:12)]} is coupled by the context with becoming a man and putting away immature speaking, immature understanding, and immature thinking (1 Corinthians 13:11). “That which is perfect” is also coupled with seeing face to face and knowing fully as such beyond the obscurity of “a glass darkly” (1 Corinthians 13:12).
“That which is perfect” is qualified as speaking as a man, understanding as a man, thinking as a man, seeing face to face, knowing even as known. Knowing even as known is to be known fully. The knowledge is complete. That which is perfect is perfect knowledge.
On the Timing of 1 Corinthians 13:10
There are some errant futurist teachers who use 1 Corinthians 13:10 as a proof that miracles will not cease until after Christ’s delayed Parousia (the Second Coming). But even if Christ had not already came to redeem His people, that interpretation ignores some principle hermeneutical standards.
That which is "perfect" is defined by the context of the passage, and one ought not to fallaciously assume that the neuter “that which is perfect” refers to Jesus Himself (who is masculine). By misappropriating "that which" to be Jesus, one would ignore the context (1 Corinthians 13:9-12) which grammatically suggests it is the "knowledge" which was to come. This is resounded in chapter 14. That complete "knowledge" to be revealed must be the completion of the knowledge that was known only in part. Also see 1 John 3:2.
Jesus Christ Already Perfect; Knowledge Becoming Perfect
Strong’s concordance defines the neuter word “that which is perfect” as:
G5046 Τέλειος teleios tel'-i-os From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
When that which was then yet to have come was completed, the partial knowledge by those who had spiritual gifts would be done away with by the perfect knowledge. The knowledge is a thing, not an adjective or description of a person. The quality of the thing knowledge is characterized by perfection and completion. The knowledge was then still to come to full age as a man.
Paul said “when I became a man, I put away childish things”. Paul refers to the body of the Church being perfected coming to full age as a man. It should be noted that Paul uses himself as an illustration cleverly putting the childish things away even as he writes of them.
Jesus was already perfected and finished His work. Jesus already came as a man physically. In the quality of His going was in what manner He would come again, not in corruption but in Glory . Jesus did not need to still come to full age as a man after His ascension. The knowledge of the Church had to be full because they as one body still knew in part as a child as if they looked through a mirror darkly.
Paul never ever would have called Jesus Christ the neuter “that which”. He would have said “He who is perfect”.
“That which is perfect” is perfect knowledge
(Luke 1:2-3, Acts 24:22, 1 Corinthians 2, Ephesians 4:13-15, Colossians 1:25-29, 2 Timothy 3:14-17, James 1:17-25), as the context of 1 Corinthians 13 defines using the normal reading hermeneutic. Though the entire Bible utters the truth of Jesus Christ, the name Jesus or even the appellation Christ is not even stated in chapter 13 or even chapter 14.
On the Perfect Knowledge
Some charismatic interpreters consider the context and agree that “that which is perfect” does not grammatically suggest Jesus’ Parousia, but rather suggests the knowledge that is perfected in some future fulfillment besides the Bible.
Some claim that the perfect knowledge of the perfect revelation is still future (usually thought to antecede physical death in heaven or after a rapture of the saints to heaven). Those interpreters presume that the revelation of God cannot be known fully. Begging the question, they imagine the notion of perfect knowledge as a sort of epistemological omniscience to occur in heaven. They claim to know [with imperfect knowledge] that they do not yet have this perfect knowledge, and believe God has hid some part of Himself from believers until after they die. The implication is that they admit to not having perfect knowledge of the very Scripture that they make conclusions from. They presume that the Word testified does not sufficiently testify of the Father. Thus, they weaken their logical appeal. When challenged on these grounds, they usually ironically claim that their position is misunderstood by the other person.
The post fulfillment view is superior because it surmises that its interpretation is indeed perfect, logically following the implications of the argument. If one did claim to have perfect knowledge, then that could mean the Church is mature enough to intelligibly comprehend the revelation of Christ, and there would be no more need for prophecy or further revelation, and "tongues would cease". If one does not believe that the Scriptures can be known fully, then any analysis on 1 Corinthians 13 would be admittedly erroneous.
Complete Knowledge
The Bible declares that the perfect knowledge is by Scripture and is Scripture itself. Scripture perfects the believer. When the Scripture was finished, then was the revelation of true knowledge completed.
Galatians 3
2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
2 Timothy 3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Romans 16
25Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
Ephesians 1
9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Also see Galatians 1:11-12, etc.
Do the saints have perfect knowledge or not? (Psalms 19:6-9). The answers in the Bible consistently points to the post fulfillment conclusion (Isaiah 11:9-10, ch.28). Paul explicitly said that by his writings they could understand the mystery of the dispensation of Christ (Galatians 3), 2 Timothy said that the Scriptures are practically sufficient in themselves unto understanding Salvation in faith.
If one disagrees, on the finished delivery of the full Gospel by the Scripture, it would ironically be on the grounds of one’s own understanding of Scripture.
1 Corinthians 2’s central theme is the fact that the revelation and knowledge of God was already then being made manifest. Also see Romans 3:3-4, 4:16, 10:11, 16:24, 2 Corinthians 4:13, 8:7, 10:7-16, Galatians 3:2-5, 3:22-25, Ephesians 3:7-12, Colossians 1:23-28, 2 Thessalonians 3:2, 1 Timothy 1:3-4, 2 Timothy 1:13, 3:13-17, Hebrews 10:22-24, 11:1-3, 1 Peter 1:9-13, 2 Peter 1:3-12, Jude 1:3.
Colossians 1
25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which[a] is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 11
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
1 Peter 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time
On John 14:12
John 14:12 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
Context of this verse:
In verse 10, Jesus said the "words4487 that3739 I1473 speak2980 unto you5213 I speak2980 not3756 of575 myself:1683 but1161 the3588 Father3962 that dwelleth3306 in1722 me,1698 he846 doeth4160 the3588 works.2041", Jesus is using a rhetorical employment here.
Notice the similar language "the works that I do he will do also" is the same concept as in verse 10, and other places in the Johannine. Jesus is saying that when He goes to the Father, He will be mediator (Galatians 3, 1 Timothy 2:5-6, Hebrews 8-9, Hebrews 12:22-24) for us.
Also notice that there is a condition of faith (not to faith), He who "believes" on me.
Romans 5:1 says:
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
The context of this conclusion of Romans 5:1 supports the view of Christ as a mediator working for us. The justification is the upshot of Jesus going to the Father (see John 14). The greater work is faith. Galatians and the first 5 books of Romans deal extensively with this theme. It is not by the works of the law that a man is justified, but by the hearing of faith (Romans 3:28, etc.).
Matthew 5:20, "...unless you righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees...", and the foretold judgment according to works (Matthew 16:27, 2 Corinthians 11:15, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 20:12-13? How can any flesh be justified by works (Galatians 2:16)? Christ saved us by His works and not our own (Romans 9:11, 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 3:5). So our works (James) are built upon His (Luke 6:48-49, 1 Corinthians 3:9-15). Notice the eschatological implications.
Also, about the John 14 appeal, notice that the work is related to Christ's words, not specifically miracles. In John 6:30, they ask Jesus for a sign so that they could see and believe His work in question. Jesus then preaches, explaining that His words are Spirit and life (John 6:63). Jesus often had the same attitude about His words being sufficient in the gospels Matthew 12:39-42, Luke 11:29-34. The legitimacy of Jesus' testimony is defended in much of the Johannine.
Also notice the "greater than these". How can we do works greater than Jesus for the reason He went to the Father? Consider the context. In verse 10 Jesus made the correlation that God was in Him. In verse 28, Jesus said that they should rejoice that He was going to the Father who was greater than He. If Jesus is the mediator, He would effectually work greater works in us (Ephesians 3:20).
Scripture consistency on this theme:
John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
The greater work is defined here clearly. The greater work is faith. Amen.
On the cessation of gifts in the Old Testament
1 Behold, a king will reign in righteousness,
And princes will rule with justice.
2 A man will be as a hiding place from the wind,
And a cover from the tempest,
As rivers of water in a dry place,
As the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
3 The eyes of those who see will not be dim,
And the ears of those who hear will listen.
4 Also the heart of the rash will understand knowledge,
And the tongue of the stammerers will be ready to speak plainly.
5 The foolish person will no longer be called generous,
Nor the miser said to be bountiful;
Isaiah 33:6 Wisdom and knowledge will be the stability of your times,
And the strength of salvation;
The fear of the LORD is His treasure.
7 Surely their valiant ones shall cry outside,
The ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly.
8 The highways lie waste,
The traveling man ceases.
He has broken the covenant,
He has despised the cities,[a]
He regards no man.
Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
On Modern Day Tongues
Glassolatia is not the type of speaking in tongues of the Bible. Glassolatia is just a personal experience. It cannot be interpreted into intelligible prophecy. Glassolatia does not edify the Church. It only offers a personal spiritual experience for the individual (1 Corinthians 14:2-4). The Bible actually is against the type of tongues found in charismatic traditions on pragmatic grounds (1 Corinthians 14:2-15).
On the Gift of Teaching
None perfect teachers (Job 36:22)[except Jesus and the apostles], and without faith, Scripture would not even profit any (Hebrews 4:2). The knowledge (Hosea 4:1-6, Acts 24:22, 2 Peter 1:2-9) is not “given by simply reading Scripture”, the Scripture is the knowledge (Daniel 12:4, Habakkuk 2:14). Works like reading is not what merits the Salvation. Faith is sufficient. It is the knowledge itself that is perfect. The knowledge is not confusing (1 Corinthians 14:30-33), but intelligible.
1 Corinthians 13 does not speak explicitly refer to the gift of teaching. The best parallel passage to 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 is Ephesians 4:7-16 [with the same central theme (the cessation of gifts and the perfection of the body)] and happens to explain of the gift of teaching and its purpose. Scripture must interpret Scripture.
Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Ephesians 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Notice all the same themes: the gifts (Ephesians 4:8-10, Hebrews 2:4) given to the body (Psalms 68:9-19, 68:9-11, Romans 12:4-7, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4:4-7), the perfecting of the saints (Proverbs 4:18, 2 Corinthians 13:11, Ephesians 4:13, Philippians 3:15-21, Colossians 1:25-29, 1 Thessalonians 3:10, 2 Timothy 3:17, Hebrews 6:1, 11:39-40, 1 Peter 5:2, Psalms 18:32, 37:37-40), edification (Luke 18:4, 1 Corinthians 14:2, 14:26), the knowledge of the Son of God (Colossians 1:25-28, 1 John 4), maturation of children (2 Timothy 3:14-15, Isaiah 28:9), and love (1 John 2, 4). Notice the affinity to Scripture in the cited parallel verses. Notice verse 11 (also see 1 Corinthians 12:28), the “some”{[τό (to-)][μέν (men)]}grammatically refers to the measure of the gifts given to men (verse 7-8): that is some apostles, some evangelists, some pastors, and some teachers [were given for the perfecting of the saints, etc.] till the body of Christ comes into the unity (Ephesians 4:3, Psalms 133) of the faith, no more as children (Isaiah 28:9, 2 Timothy 3:14-15), carried about with every wind of doctrine (Isaiah 28, 29:24, 32:1-5, 33:3-7, Psalms 107:27-30, Ephesians 4:14, Jeremiah 10:8, Romans 16:17-20, 1 Corinthians 14:6, 1 Timothy 4:6-7, 4:16)…speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15). When did the body of Christ come into the unity of the faith? The Bible (1 Timothy 2:4-6) alone is the knowledge of the Son of God, to reveal true doctrine (1 Timothy 1:4-13).
The Work of God in Faith
The elect look not after physical things but those spiritual unseen things in faith (John 3:11-12, John 7:21-4, John 14:12, 2 Corinthians 4:18, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Philippians 3:19-21, Hebrews 11:1, Hebrews 11:13, Hebrews 11:35, 1 Peter 1:18). Faith is God’s work.
John 6:28 Then3767 said2036 they unto4314 him,846 What5101 shall we do,4160 that2443 we might work2038 the3588 works2041 of God?2316
John 6:29 Jesus2424 answered611 and2532 said2036 unto them,846 This5124 is2076 the3588 work2041 of God,2316 that2443 ye believe4100 on1519 him whom3739 he1565 hath sent.649 [KJV]
4 I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work.
Faith is sufficient:
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
This is the greater "work": faith (also see James 2:17-26).
Galatians 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
1John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith—
The testimony of Jesus Christ by Scripture alone is sufficient without a physical miracle. No physical proof is necessary, only faith in what the Scripture says. Miracles do not necessarily indicate the votaries of God (as there were false wonder workers in Acts).
Conclusion
Cessationism, the close of the canon and completion of prophecy compliments fulfilled eschatology. A balanced view of the function of prophetic gifts in the first century saints, the centrality of faith, the importance of Scripture and sound doctrine is central to a proper view of cessationism.
The only sufficient testimony of God is the Bible. Only faith in Jesus Christ as portrayed in the Bible sufficient knowledge of God. So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.
Grace be to you,
PFC Vincent Michael Krivda, Jr.
Bible-Touchstone
Ft. Lee, VA
Sola Scriptura!
Comments welcome; all Scripture cited from NKJV, UON.
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Re: A Scriptural Case for the Cessation of Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
 by williamprice on Monday, May 26 @ 15:18:32 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | As a man who has experienced the gifts of the Spirit on an ongoing basis, might I recommend Dominic Benincasa's message "Spiritual Gifts After AD70" located at http://www.ontimejournal.com/media/Benincasa_SpiritualGiftsAfter70AD.wma
It is a powerful message which points that the giftings of the Spirit were with the prophets of old, and continue on to this day as a testimony of the New Covenant still in effect in the Church. |
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- by plymouthrock on Thursday, May 29 @ 18:11:29 PDT
- by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Friday, May 30 @ 16:53:58 PDT
Re: A Scriptural Case for the Cessation of Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
 by Ransom on Monday, May 26 @ 19:44:31 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Interesting timing, as I've been struggling with my being in a charismatic church lately. I can't just say, "I don't believe it" without a scriptural basis. Remarkably, I just recently heard a podcast by David Curtis called "Other Tongues" preached on May 11 that was the best explanation of preterist cessationism I've ever heard. He didn't go enough into "the perfect" for lack of time, but you have helped fill this in.
A question I have for you is how you would treat this passage from Ephesians 4:
11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. [In what sense does this not happen nowadays?] 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Also, the question of apostleship doesn't seem quite as clear-cut as you made it: for one thing, the NT records several "apostles" other than the "big A" Apostles of which Paul claimed to be the last. I suppose one could extend it to mean that all the apostles, "big A" and otherwise, ended with Paul's ordination, but when you consider that there's a strong implication that Timothy was one of the apostles (cf. 1 Thess 1:1 and 2:6), that becomes harder to believe.
(Oh, and by the way, I think you meant glossolalia, not "glassolatia". Thought you'd like to know.) |
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- by Bible-Touchstone on Tuesday, May 27 @ 09:21:25 PDT
Commentary on 1 Corinthians 13 (Score: 1)
by Parker on Tuesday, May 27 @ 16:26:03 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | I recommend studying this commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:
http://www.preteristvision.org/commentaries/1cor13.html
Enjoy |
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Re: A Scriptural Case for the Cessation of Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Tuesday, May 27 @ 21:42:52 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | For reference, I wrote this: http://www.preteristvision.org/holyspirit/spiritual_gifts_today.html
It's written for cessationists to better understand charismatics and for charismatics to avoid becoming spooks! |
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