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"the Rapture will be the 20th of June, 2000..."
-- Marilyn Agee
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Preterism: What is the Kingdom of God?
Posted on Saturday, February 23 @ 18:18:52 PST by Virgil |
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A few days ago I met with a few students from Cedarville University and we discussed a lot of exciting things, from the creation, to the Kingdom and the resurrection. One of them e-mailed me today ans asked: "In reading McLaren's books, and your interview with him, I've come across the phrase "Kingdom of God". I just wanted to know, what exactly do you or McLaren mean by "Kingdom of God"? Is it here already, or is it something we are working towards?"
I noticed that sometimes we have a hard time explaining the Kingdom of God to those who are not familiar with fulfilled prophecy or preteristic eschatology.
Some comments, feedback and answers for the Cedarville students would be greatly appreciated.
Also, any hit-comments against McLaren will be deleted; the purpose of this is to provide answers about the nature and timing of the Kingdom to someone who is truly inquisitive about the topic of the Kingdom, not an avenue to attack/defend or discuss Brian McLaren.
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Average Score: 1
Votes: 1
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
 by kingdom_dweller (bmax2112@gmail.com) on Saturday, February 23 @ 18:54:53 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Kingdom of God == Kingdom of Heaven == The New Covenant == The New Heaven and the New Earth == The New Jerusalem == The Body of Christ == The Church of Jesus Christ == Heaven
God dwells in Heaven, God dwells in Us. We are Heaven. We are the Kingdom of God.
Who is Brian McLaren?
Sincerely,
Brian Maxwell
http://newcreationministries.tv/Articles/heavensandearth.htm
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
 by davo on Saturday, February 23 @ 20:39:26 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) |
The Kingdom of Heaven == the Kingdom of God [Mt 19:23-24] == the Kingdom of Christ & God [Eph 5:5] found in -- the Gospel of God == the Gospel of Christ [Rom 15:16, 19] proclaiming -- the Reign of God [Isa 52:7] == the Reign Christ [Rev 11:15] == the believer's reign in Christ on earth [Rom 5:17; Rev 10:5] == the believer's reign in Christ in heaven [Eph 2:6; Rev 20:4, 6] -- All concurrent realities in "the end of the age".
davo |
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- by Virgil on Sunday, February 24 @ 14:19:19 PST
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
by tom-g on Sunday, February 24 @ 09:10:03 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hey Virgil,
Given your comment that quotes a student's e-mail, that e-mail gives evidence of a major question that must also be established. "Or is it something we are working towards?"
That question involves two distinctly separate subjects. The who, what, when, where, why, and how of the kingdom. and the WWWWWH of the role of the citizens of the kingdom.
Given the nature of the inquiry and the recipients of the answers, I do not foresee any benefit if the answers are simply based upon the authority of "This is what I believe", or "This is what I think."
The bottom line is, for the answers to be given serious consideration by intelligent inquiring students they cannot be subjectively derived. And the source of the proof must be accepted by them as the authority capable of supplying that proof, when rationally demonstrated.
Tom |
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
by SuperSoulFighter on Monday, February 25 @ 04:04:41 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | From a Biblical perspective (and without supplying the substantiating textual treatment necessary to verify this statement), I believe the Kingdom of God, fundamentally, is defined as "The cosmos or world of God's Covenant People who have submitted to, and are currently governed directly by, Him." I believe davo also expressed it in this way, more or less, above.
There are all kinds of details we could discuss in terms of how this Kingdom is administered, where its seat of authority is located, etc. etc. but the peripherals are of lesser importance. For the students who are willing to give this subject very serious consideration - especially in relation to our current spiritual lives today (and our relationship to the God of Israel), the above definition should prove satisfactory, I believe.
JM |
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- by William on Monday, February 25 @ 08:43:55 PST
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
by Barry on Monday, February 25 @ 10:20:05 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Quote:
I noticed that sometimes we have a hard time explaining the Kingdom of God to those who are not familiar with fulfilled prophecy or preteristic eschatology.
Some comments, feedback and answers for the Cedarville students would be greatly appreciated.
End quote.
The meaning of the kingdom of heaven in its fully realized state, is that the conscience of man that was attached to the authority of types and figures of the old cosmos is no longer a consequence of "separation" from God.
It was the conscience of man that was judged in the fulfillment of all things.
The removal of the law nullifies the authority of the conscience to indicate a separation from God in relationship.
This is why they were told to "repent" for the kingdom of heaven was "at hand".
Such was inseparable from the fulfilling of the types and figures which gave a precedence to the "conscience" through the "law" and "commands".
Believers at this time of transition were coming into a deliverance from the weight of the law prior to its full passing away in the end of the age.
So they passed into the new age un-hurt by the second death (end of the old economy).
Those who did not believe but continued their confidence in the law suffered the consequence of this confidence in the passing away of the law. Such take place as the final judgment or consummated judgment against the conscience.
The fulfilling of the types and figures had comprehensive results upon both believers and non believers.
Faith is now important in bringing in the conscience to the reality of the new cosmos.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of THIS PRESENT TIME [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
{IE in types and figures of good things to come}
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption INTO the glorious liberty OF the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
The "end of the age" represents a clear finality that we must adapt to and incorporated in our message of "good news".
In such we distance ourselves from an "us and them" mentality and become more productive for continued transformation both individual and social (collective).
For the good news is framed around an understanding of coming into the realization of God faithfulness towards us all.
We are therefore all in this together. Such is however not always present in our understanding and thus our behavior.
I hope this helps a little.
Blessings
Barry |
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Re: What is the Kingdom of God? (Score: 1)
by William on Tuesday, February 26 @ 09:40:37 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Our pursuits will always be inadequate, not in the sense of unworthy or insufficient but in the sense that we remain cracked vessels, though full of glory. The nature of this quest is not necessarily progressive as if we can see two lines eventually merging after hundreds of thousands of years, but rather two parallel lines which continue on beyond us. So we either reflect God's glory or we don't, on this road.
The full breadth of it is here, but so are also many other things between those parallel lines, on this very road. Ugly, dark and horrific.
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William, in relation to the "inadequacies" you are perceiving, is the reality of the Kingdom inadequate, or is our pursuit of it so, and why do you think so?
The Kingdom, in both the eyes of Christ and the eyes of those writing and teaching in the first century seems to have been an expectation of "heaving coming down to earth" in a very real sense. Could it be that we are misplacing those expectations today still? What if the full breadth of the Kingdom is here, now, totally "adequate" yet it is up to us to materialize the spiritual Kingdom into a tangible, physical reality? And perhaps the progressive nature of this quest is what you perceive is being inadequate?
And if in the scheme of things we are just at the very beginning of this quest (in the tens of thousands of years of past and future human existence), we are still learning how to get it done.
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Brian's take on the kingdom of God can be better understood as "God's Kingdom for Today's World" . When Jesus did what he did and said what he said he was bringing God's ultimate reality, the future new creation, into the present. God's world was breaking into our world. As it is in the heavens, so also on the earth. What it's called sometimes God's dreams for our world.
Think of the two vowels, A for achievement and I for implementation.
In the death and resurrection of Jesus, YHWH achieved the decisive victory over sin and death. The church has been entrusted with the ongoing task of implementing this achievement, as it looks forward to the bodily resurrection, with heaven being the in-between stage.
Let your minds be transformed by the "realities of heaven" , that kind of thing.
That, I believe, is what Brian McLaren teaches concerning the kingdom of God. God's reality being pursued and accomplished on our earth, however inadequately.
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