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Another thing that hinders (receiving the Holy Spirit or anointing) is people pray all the time.
-- John Arnott, at Holy Trinity Brompton, England, February 14, 1995
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News: Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam
Posted on Tuesday, December 04 @ 13:34:20 PST by Norman Voss |
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Few public figures have done more to earn our sympathy than the Muslim apostate Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a fugitive from her native Somalia, and now a virtual exile from her adopted country, the Netherlands. Under constant threat since the 2004 murder by an Islamist of her collaborator, the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, Hirsi Ali warns the West that Islam presents a mortal threat to its freedoms.
America took her in last year when the Dutch government connived to remove her refugee status, but she remains something of an embarrassment to the George W Bush administration. This autumn the Dutch government removed her security detail, and the Americans have taken no steps to protect her. That is a stain on the honor of both countries.
Although she has the credibility of a witness as well as the moral standing of a victim, Hirsi Ali remains a bystander civilian in the great war of our times, whose broadest front is in the global South. That is, she proclaims herself to be an atheist. Millions of Muslims reportedly convert to Christianity each year, mainly in Africa. Islam is stagnant in Asia while tens of millions become Christian. Yet all the Muslim apostates whose voices we hear are atheists - not only Hirsi Ali, but also Salman Rushdie, the celebrated author of The Satanic Verses, the Syrian poet Adonis, and the pseudonymous Ibn Warraq, author of Why I am not a Muslim and several compendia of Koranic criticism.
Why do Muslim apostates gravitate towards atheism? That is not true of other religions. Many Jewish converts achieved prominence in 20th-century Christianity - for example, the recently deceased Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger, the martyred Carmelite nun Edith Stein (now canonized), and the great Protestant theologian Eugene Rosenstock-Huessy. But the name of no prominent Muslim convert to Christianity (much less to Judaism) comes to mind.
It is easy to change what we think, but very hard to change how we think. Contrary to superficial impressions, Islam is much closer in character to atheism than to Christianity or Judaism. Although the "what" of Muslim and atheistic thinking of course are very different, I shall endeavor below to prove that the "how" is very similar.
Click here to read the entire article
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Re: Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam (Score: 1)
 by EWMI on Tuesday, December 04 @ 13:54:37 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | You know the article is a crock when you read that Christianity and Judaism are 'Sister Religions'
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- by Starlight on Tuesday, December 04 @ 16:13:02 PST
- by EWMI on Tuesday, December 04 @ 16:20:39 PST
Re: Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam (Score: 1)
by Islamaphobe on Tuesday, December 04 @ 18:05:27 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Norm,
Inasmuch as I rate "Spengler" of atimes.com as an excellent thinker and scholar, I am glad to see that you have inserted this article. I see that our voluble friend from Down Under has already launched a headlong assault on this article. Imagine the audacity of stating that "Islam is much closer in character to atheism than to Christianity or Judaism" and that Judaism and Christianity are sister religions! Such statements should evidently suffice to render anything else "Spengler" writes as nonsense.
I suggest, however, that attacks are like to yield more fruitful results if they are preceded by thought. I happen to think that "Spengler" is right, and I like the argument that he makes in the latter part of the article that indoctrination in the Islamic concept of Allah leads easily to outright atheism once doubt begins to set in about Islamic doctrine. As "Spengler" points out, Allah is, quoting Pope Benedict, "absolutely transcendant"; i.e. he is simply not bound by natural law and is everywhere at all times. Toward the end of the article, suggests "Spengler," "If God is everywhere and in all things, there need be no law-giver, and the world is an arbitrary and desolate place." And then, still later, he suggests, "The empty and arbitrary world of atheism is far closer to the Muslim universe than the Biblical world." Given all this, when Muslims begin to doubt the word of Allah, it is a simple step for them to become atheists. "Spengler" also observes that "Islam is stagnant in Asia while tens of millions become Christian." I would be interested in knowing if Al exhibits that same high regard for this statement that he does for the sister religion idea.
Almost a month ago, "Spengler" did an article on the drastic decline in fertility in Iran that called my attention to a chart published by (gasp!) the CIA. Interested readers can pull this chart up simply by Googling "CIA" and "fertility rate." "Spengler" believes that the great decline in fertility rates that has affected many nations other than the European ones in recent decades reflects, most fundamentally, a weakening of religious belief and, most specifically, growing doubt about eternal life. I find it extremely interesting that not only has Iran experienced a drastic decline in fertility, but so have Turkey, Algeria, Tunisia, and (generally to a smaller degree) a number of other Muslim nations, including even Saudi Arabia. There is a lot going on in those countries that is not being adquately reported. Thank God for the Net! Hey, maybe even the CIA is worth having!
John S. Evans
Toward the end of the |
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- by EWMI on Tuesday, December 04 @ 18:49:56 PST
- by EWMI on Tuesday, December 04 @ 19:09:41 PST
- by Islamaphobe on Tuesday, December 04 @ 19:44:32 PST
- by EWMI on Tuesday, December 04 @ 19:49:33 PST
- by Starlight on Tuesday, December 04 @ 19:46:15 PST
Re: Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam (Score: 1)
by OSTRALOA on Wednesday, December 05 @ 02:22:15 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | To John, Norm & Al,
One thing is for sure. Talmudism i.e. religious Judaism sure isn't close to Christianity.
I know of no other religous doctrine that teaches such hate against Christ & Christianity. John when will you deal with this and quit bashing Islam? I have read the Quran and about every other religious writing being a strudent of Comparative Religion in college. Then I ran across the Talmud and what it really says. Besides satanic cults it sure tops the list. Read it find out for yourselves. I would recommend Peter Schafer's Jesus in the Talmud and Michael Hoffman's upcoming Judaism Unveiled for the truth of the matter.
For Christ & Kingdom,
Paul Anderson
Planalmira, Brazil
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- by Islamaphobe on Wednesday, December 05 @ 05:15:01 PST
- by EWMI on Wednesday, December 05 @ 12:44:21 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 05:53:22 PST
- by Islamaphobe on Wednesday, December 05 @ 07:42:19 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 08:21:44 PST
- by Islamaphobe on Wednesday, December 05 @ 08:45:03 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 09:06:44 PST
Spengler arguing from false premise? (Score: 1)
by Parker on Wednesday, December 05 @ 07:44:00 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Spengler writes: "Why do Muslim apostates gravitate towards atheism? That is not true of other religions"
Parker:
This premise strikes me as entirely untrue. People of all religions become atheists for all sorts of reasons. I don't believe that Islam has cornered the market on churning out atheists. And, as this is the premise of the article, I think the whole article fails.
And, in fact, one could easily argue that Islam's "transcendent God" perspective is directly responsible for producing the most ardent and devout worshipers/theists anywhere on the planet. |
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- by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 08:28:34 PST
- by Parker on Wednesday, December 05 @ 09:01:17 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 09:48:55 PST
- by Islamaphobe on Wednesday, December 05 @ 08:33:48 PST
- by Parker on Wednesday, December 05 @ 09:13:42 PST
- by Islamaphobe on Wednesday, December 05 @ 10:11:50 PST
- by Parker on Wednesday, December 05 @ 11:39:12 PST
- by EWMI on Wednesday, December 05 @ 12:39:29 PST
The Pope and Atheism (Score: 1)
by Starlight on Wednesday, December 05 @ 16:01:38 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I want to attach portions of a follow up article by Michael Novak writing on the NRonline that has similar ramifications as Spengler’s article but drawn from the Catholic perspective by the Pope himself towards atheism.
The article may be found at the this site http://www.nationalreview.com/
Under Novaks name and the portion I’m posting starts on the second page of his article.
Begin quote:
Recently, I visited the website of the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, to listen to a debate between Christopher Hitchens and Dinesh D’Souza on atheism. This is the first debate that I have ever heard Christopher lose. In it, I heard Christopher describe his own view of the world, which may be abbreviated as follows: It was just 100,000 years ago that humans finally appeared on this planet. On average, these poor creatures died by age 25, and suffered (often horribly) from disease, earthquake, flood, famine, and cyclones — not to mention murder and warfare. Only after some 96,000 years does Jewish history begin, and only after some 98,000 years does Christian “salvation” come. For all those thousands of years the Creator/Designer left human beings to suffer. Then, even after Judaism and Christianity arrive, the suffering continues almost unabated. In addition, these poor human beings are badly designed. They have developed too much adrenaline, and the frontal lobes of their brains are too small. All these together leave humans in a bleak condition in a bleak world, and with very little hope. Who is responsible for this bad design? Hitchens blames the Creator.
*V*
Benedict addresses these two points and many others. Benedict agrees that the condition of humans before the Jewish and Christian news of God’s intentions was as bleak as Hitchens says. The idea of progress was not present in consciousness. The idea had not yet been born that the Creator is a Person of goodness, reason, and friendship, especially disposed to those creatures He created free (as Jefferson noted). And that God wanted to invite humans into His friendship. The idea that each human is free in his individual conscience — not the conscience solely of city, tribe, or even family — had not been introduced. The idea that the human mind is proportioned to the world as it is, and capable, in the image of the Creator, of creating new inventions, discoveries, and means of progress in history, had not yet been grasped by the mind of humans.
Since both the light of reason and the light of faith emanate from the same Source, the intelligent Creator of all things and would-be Friend of His conscious creatures, they cannot in principle contradict one another. If they appear to do so, either those using reason or those using faith are making mistakes, and need to go back to see where the errors arose. This very check-and-balance — this creative rivalry — sparks a remarkable thrust forward at the heart of our culture.
Hope, an overriding confidence in betterment (personal and communal), is a powerful driving force. Even many who claim to be atheists retain at least this gift from the infusion of Judaism and Christianity into the heart of our culture.
Benedict praises atheists for many of their intentions and achievements. He points to experiences the human race has endured in our time to call attention to the inadequacies of atheism. He proposes what billions have found a more promising path.
End Quote:
YLT Gen 1: 2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is.
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
Blessings
Norm
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Re: Hirsi Ali, atheism and Islam (Score: 1)
by OSTRALOA on Friday, December 07 @ 12:45:32 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Norm & John,
Then both of you are unaware of of the Jews against Zionism movement, Naturei Karta for instance? Why no response John on the Talmud not to mention the Kabbalah and their blasphemies against Christ & Christianity? Did you miss the news on the rabbis spitting on Orthodox priests in Palestine and other events not reported by our wonderful and biased Fox News for instance?
Well, if neither of you are familiar with Talmud or Kabbalah, case closed. Write me back when you are.
For Christ & Kingdom,
Paul Anderson
Planalmira, Brazil |
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