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Exclusive: Why Are Christians Losing America?
Posted on Wednesday, October 10 @ 10:10:31 PDT by John Noe

PlanetPreterist Columns by John Noe
This article was published in condensed form in MovieGuide magazine and website (Sept. 2007). It was also a topical question discussed in several small groups of Christians in Indianapolis, IN, in the summer of 2007.1

An Amplified Discussion Outline

with

John Noē, Ph.D. (© 2007)

Two suppositions are contained in this discussion question:

1) America is being lost.

2) Christians are responsible.

Or are we since . . .

  • “Four out of five Americans describe themselves as Christians?
  • 45% of us attend worship services on any given weekend?
  • The popularity of Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ and Rick Warren’s book, The Purpose-Driven Life?
  • America appears to be bursting its seams with vibrant Christianity.”

And yet . . .

America’s popular culture, its laws, public education system, news media, entertainment industry, and other major institutions have become progressively un-Christian – even anti-Christian.”

On 4th of July we sang “God Bless America,” while much of America is doing everything it can to sabotage that.

The reason Christians are losing America is . . .

“Christians have been seduced . . . hoodwinked . . . sold a bill of goods . . . are operating under a misguided and simplistic interpretation of scripture . . . . Christianity – the deepest, most meaningful and awe-inspiring religion ever – has been dumbed down . . .”

Consequently . . .

  • “only 9% of Christians have a biblical worldview.”
  • “‘born-again’ Christian adults in the U.S. think and act virtually the same as non-believers . . . almost no difference.” (recent George Barna study cited)

Whistleblower’s answer to how we’ve been “dumbed down” and how “to turn America around – to take it back – ” is . . .

“Take back your churches . . . [as] the springboard to taking back the culture.” They call for laymen to lead a “new pulpit revolution . . . . Think about it. When was the last time you heard a sermon on:

· A great social issue of our time?

· The last time your church engaged in the political debate?

· How many churches are active in the cultural war?

· How many pastors are leading prayers for . . . our nation’s soul?”

“The churches remain the last, best hope Americans have for bringing about a rebirth of Western Judeo-Christian culture.”

Perhaps, Tony Evans has best captured this dilemma thusly:

“Let me put the problem to you in the form of a question. How can we have all these churches on all these street corners, filled with all these members, led by all these preachers, elders, and deacons . . . and yet still have all this mess in America? Something is wrong somewhere!”

“But when we turn the education of our children over to the state, and the state removes biblical ethics from its curriculum, what you get is the mess we have now.”

– Tony Evans, What a Way to Live! (Nashville, TN.: Word Publishing, 1997), 294, 76.

What do you think?

The Church in Nazi Germany
—Are We Repeating the Mistakes of the Past?—

The Christians in Germany learned only too late that the people of God in Christ cannot disengage from the culture in which they live. We cannot withdraw to the comfortable security of our beautiful sanctuaries and sit in our padded pews while the world all around us goes to hell. For to do so is a betrayal of the Lord whose name we bear and is a denial of the power and efficacy of his Word, the Word that He has given us to proclaim.

In Germany, as here in the United States, one of the most clever tools in the enemy’s arsenal used to silence and intimidate Christians, to drive them out of the public square was the lie of the separation of Church and State. . . .

So Hitler called together the most important preachers in the land . . . . to reassure them, and intimidate them, if he could, to silence their criticism so he could go on with his plans for the country . . . . He told them their state subsides would continue, their tax exemptions were secure, that the church had nothing to fear from a Nazi government.

And finally, one brash young preacher who was there . . . had had enough. He was going to tell the truth even if that truth was not popular. And he pushed his way to the front of the room until he stood eye to eye with the German dictator. And he said, “Herr Hitler, our concern is not for the Church. Jesus Christ will take care of his Church. Our concern is for the soul of our nation.” It was immediately evident that the brash young preacher spoke only for himself, as a chagrined silence fell over that room and his colleagues hustled him away from the front.

Hitler with a natural politician’s instinct saw that reaction and he understood exactly what it meant. And, he smiled as he said to himself almost reflectively, “The soul of Germany, you can leave that to me.” And they did. They kept their religion and their politics strictly separate from one another. And as the innocent were slaughtered and as the nation was led down the path to destruction, they looked the other way and they minded their own business. And their country was destroyed [in twelve short years].

I would submit to you today that we in America find ourselves in a frighteningly similar predicament. Once again, the innocent are being slaughtered in a 26-year holocaust [over 40 million boys and girls] that makes Hitler look like a humanitarian by comparison. Once again, a nation is being led down the path of destruction and, once again, by and large, God’s people are looking the other way.[1]

‘War on Christianity’

Bill O’Reilly – ‘Talking Points’

June 2, 2004 – When the anti-Christian campaign by the ACLU claimed Los Angeles County as another victim in forcing them to take a small cross off its seal, Fox News commentator, Bill O’Reilly, had this to say:

“The harsh truth is that many American Christians don’t care about what is happening . . . . Talking Points wants you to know that we are rapidly losing freedom in America. Judges are overruling the will of the people and fascist organizations like the ACLU are imposing their secular will. And, when was the last time you heard a priest, minister, or rabbi talk about this? For me, the answer is simple. . . . Never! And that’s a memo.”

What do you think?

3 Major ‘Dumbed-Down’ Areas

In this section we will discuss three major areas greatly dumbed-down (i.e., diluted, devalued, diminished) by many church leaders and which have dramatically and negatively conditioned Christians into inaction and against cultural involvement.

Agree/disagree? You may be able to think of more areas.

If you become upset with any of this, first, please ask yourself,

Is it possible that I am a victim of this dumbed-downedness?

#1 – Gospel Reductionism –

Question: “What is the gospel?” For the majority of evangelicals the answer is, “the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

But this is not the gospel Jesus came into Galilee proclaiming, nor that of his central teaching.

Fact is, Jesus did not come into Galilee preaching Jesus. Nor did He come preaching and teaching his death so that when we die we could go to Heaven, or offering a “get-out-of-Hell-free” card.

Jesus preached and taught the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 1:15).

· Dallas Willard terms this kingdom deficiency, "the great omission" in his most recent book by this title and the primary reason "why . . . today's church [is] so weak" in his book, The Divine Conspiracy (San Francisco, CA.: HarperSanFrancisco, 1997), 40f.

· Darrell Guder calls it "reductionism of the gospel" in his book, The Continuing Conversion of the Church (Grand Rapids, MI.: Eerdmans, 2000), xiiif.

· Robert Lynn laments that “the gospel we proclaim has been shrunk” in his article “Far as the curse is found” in Chuck Colson’s Breakpoint Worldview magazine, Oct. ’06, 14.

Rediscovering the whole gospel—a greater gospel.

“. . . not a sub-biblical gospel that simply rearranges my interior and prepares me for a life beyond this world. Rather, it’s . . . a gospel that is a new way of seeing the world and everything in it.”

– Rev. Robert Lynn, “Worldview Church,” Prison Fellowship, www.breakpoint.org., 6/24/07. 3, 4.

“The Gospel of Christ and His kingdom [is] the centerpiece of our every endeavor.”

– T.M. Moore, “Worldview Weapons,” BreakPoint Worldview

(Oct. 2006): 9.

“the gospel is not how to escape the world; the gospel is that the crucified and risen Jesus is the Lord of the world . . . . ‘If he’s not Lord of all, he’s not Lord at all’.”

– N.T. Wright, “Mere Mission,” Christianity Today (Jan. 2007):

41, 39.

“the cultivation of Christlikeness . . . and the transformation of culture . . . . personal holiness and social transformation.”

– Douglas C. Minson, “Religion & Society,” Prison Fellowship, www.breakpoint.org., 6/24/07, 2, 3.

“the gospel is about how the world will be saved from human sin and all that goes with it—human greed, human lust, human pride, human oppression, human hypocrisy and dishonesty, human violence and racism, human chauvinism, human injustice. . . . I believe the gospel of Jesus is that the Kingdom of God is at hand and is open to all . . . . The Kingdom of God integrates . . . personal and social, private and public, secret and visible, spiritual and political, historic and eternal, earth and beyond . . . . could our preoccupation with individual salvation from hell after death distract us from speaking prophetically about injustice in our world today?”

– Brian D. McLaren, The Last Word and the Word after That

(Jossey-Bass, San Francisco, CA.: 2005), 69, 111, 149. 84.

Objection: “But we preach Jesus and the Bible. That’s the same as

preaching the kingdom.”

Response: Jesus did not do it this way in hopes his followers would catch on to the kingdom message indirectly or via osmosis.

Jesus made careful and appealing use of words to entice His followers to desire the life of beauty they saw in Him . . . . to communicate the values . . . and the truths of the kingdom of God. He never simply assumed that people world ‘get it’ . . . . He knew He world have to use words to teach them well, and teach them well He did.”

– Mark Earley, “A Life of Beauty,” BreakPoint Worldview

(May 2007), 4, 5.

The better and more insightful translation of Matt. 6:33 is:

“But seek first his kingdom and his justice, and all

these things will be given to you as well.”

This closer translation introduces a different understanding of this often-quoted but little-followed verse. That is, every earthly endeavor should be considered kingdom activity—the obvious outworking of “thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10).

My working definition of the greater and whole biblical gospel is:

The establishment of the everlasting and final form of God’s kingdom on earth and his salvation . . .

(And in this order, because that is how Jesus both proclaimed and accomplished these two distinct but interrelated realities. The Apostle Paul, too—see

Acts 28:31; 19:8; 20:25)

. . . As well as. how we enter into each, receive its blessings, and become obedient to our responsibilities therein.

Problem is, most modern-day Christians are ignorant of or confused as to the timing, nature, and scope of the kingdom.

Moreover, how are we to seek something we don’t understand or really know what it is?

· We’re basically kingdom illiterate.

· Haven’t been raised in a kingdom-oriented tradition.

· Most Christian colleges and seminaries don’t teach it.

· They also lack an effective and sound theology of the kingdom.

· It is foreign territory and, therefore, frightening.

What do you think?

#2 – Fatalistic, False Views of the Future –

The current and dominant worldview in American evangelical-ism is that the world will, and is supposed to, get “worse and worse.”

Produces a “why fight, we’re on the next flight” mentality.

But how does this fatalistic view match up with Isaiah 9:6-7’s description of the future of the messianic kingdom? (It doesn’t.)

“This faulty religious teaching, says John Chalfant, is the only way to explain why so many well-meaning Christians are paralyzed into inaction.” (WB, 17):

“It comprises what is left today of the militant, power-filled, full-dimensional Christian faith of America’s Founders after decades of erosion, watering down and trivializing of God’s action mandates by America’s Abandonment Clergy.”

“Much of the clergy, along with their millions of victimized American Christians following their pastors’ lead, have retreated from the battlefront to the social, non-confrontational, non-controversial reservation [i.e., their church]. They say that Christians should confine their religious activities to politically non-controversial roles and keep their Bibles out of the political process. They also say that based on prophecy these are the ‘last days,’ and any efforts we make to restore righteousness to this nation will be in vain and need not even be undertaken.”

– John W. Chalfant, Abandonment Theology (Winter Park, FL.: America – A Call to Greatness, Inc., 1996, 1999), 5 and 117-118.

“For this type of ‘Christian,’ there’s no need to stand up to evil, because they’re ‘saved by grace, not works’ (despite repeated biblical admonitions that ‘faith without works is dead’). No need to obey God’s commands, because they’re already saved, so why bother? No need to try to help make it a better world, because they’re going to be ‘raptured’ soon and those who remain behind can sort out the mess. Is it any wonder the church–and America–are in such trouble?” (WB, 27)

Why the Moral Majority failed after only twenty years.

Moral Majority Founder, Jerry Falwell, summarized the failure and demise of this activist organization in this manner:

“I see things getting worse and worse and worse. All we’re doing—all we’ve ever been able to do—is to have the church put its thumb in the dike, but it’s inevitable that it’s going to come out. We are supposed to keep it plugged up as long as we can, be a restraining influence. We prevent spoilage . . . . But we’re kidding ourselves if we think there’s any program, any third party . . . or anything we can do to straighten things out right now . . . . these things that we have in the country are beyond repair.”

– From Cal Thomas, Ed Dobson, Blinded by Might (Grand Rapids, MI.: Zondervan, 1999), 276.

The problem of sounding “an uncertain sound”—“For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound [i.e., message], who shall prepare himself to the battle?” (1 Cor. 14:8). Perhaps, the Moral Majority did not have a sound or strong enough theological foundation that would support the level of activism to which it aspired?

What do you think?

#3 – Life in Heaven

What is eternal life in Heaven really going to be like?

Rarely, if ever, is the doctrine of eternal rewards, loss, and punishments for believers taught or preached. Therefore, “there are countless ‘Christians’ who believe they have a ticket to Heaven, and nothing else really matters.” (WB, 22)

So, why is this biblical teaching rarely if ever taught? Here’s a short, recent, and true story that might shed some light on this omission.

The senior pastor’s sermon that Sunday was on the topic or “Universal Judgment.” Confidently, however, he assured the large congregation that if they are believers in Jesus Christ, they have nothing to fear, nothing to worry about, concerning judgment, because Christ has taken care of it for us.

In a follow-up conversation, I asked this pastor if he was familiar with the doctrine of eternal rewards, loss, and even punishment for believers in Heaven. He said he wasn’t interested. I mentioned that there are twenty or so verses that speak of this and I’d be happy to send them to him. He responded that there are many more verses that speak of God’s grace and love and of setting people free. He would focus on these and not the others, thank you.

No doubt, this pastor is both a victim as well as a perpetrator of a dumbed-down version of Christianity.

These comments from Brian McLaren speak frankly and directly to this area of dumbed-downedness:

“What could be more serious than standing in front of your Creator—the Creator of the universe—and finding out that you had wasted your life, squandered your inheritance, caused others pain and sorrow, worked against the good plans and desires of God? What could be more serious than that? To have to face the real, eternal, unavoidable, absolute, naked truth about yourself, what you’ve done, what you’ve become? . . . . Nothing could be more serious than that . . . . We cannot select out comfortable passages and ignore those that make us uneasy.” – McLaren, The Last Word, 79, 80, 96.

Yet McLaren reminds his readers that he is “not denying salvation by grace . . . . I’m just advocating judgment by works,” and that “being judged isn’t the same as being condemned and that being saved means a lot more than not being judged.”

– Ibid., 138.

What do you think?

So Here We Are . . .

“The compartmentalization and trivialization of Christianity . . . has ushered in a generation of shallow, ineffectual, and invisible Christians . . . . America’s churches have been subverted” (WB, 29)

Consequently, thousands of American evangelical churches are culturally neutralized and comfortable and content with a dumbed-down version of genuine Christianity. Thus, they are committed to:

  • presenting a kingdom-deficient gospel
  • marketing mediocrity
  • laboring in lukewarmness
  • and being culturally impotent

In short, according to Jewish secularist Alan Wolfe, Christianity has been “tamed” and “culture has triumphed.” (In his book, The Transformation of American Religion (New York: Free Press, 2003), inside flap, 3.)

“As a result, Christian faith [has] become increasingly personalized, privatized, and marginalized” (McLaren, The Last Word, 169). Even worse, if possible, Christians are not only losing America but we are also losing our kids in droves. And many Christians and churches don’t even want to talk about it.

So who is responsible? We are! And we are not being properly and scripturally led. (A few exceptions do exist.) It seems, that once again, the traditions of men have nullified the Word of God in this area (Mark 7:13; Matt. 15:6).

Our Options: What Can We Do?

1) Nothing . . . business as usual?

2) Brow beat – moral exhortation?

3) More prayer – al a 2 Chron. 7:14?But it takes more than prayer to meet God’s requirements for national blessing here!

Big problems call for big solutions.

Only one practical and effective way out of this cultural, moral, and spiritual morass.

4) Transformational Imagination – an educational and missional process of enticing, following the model of Jesus’ central teaching and the heart of his earthly ministry.

5 STEPS FOR RESTORING . . .

the preaching, teaching, and practice of the kingdom-of-God worldview (in its fullness) to the Church and to the world.

Step #1Unlearning popular misconceptions.

Step #2Grounding the kingdom theologically—the timing, nature, and scope of its everlasting form.

Step #3Applying the kingdom to today’s world—i.e., the transformation of both self and society.

Step #4Confirming why it is so important for every believer to be active and fully involved in advancing God’s kingdom (seeking justice), here and now, on this earth.

Step #5Prioritizing this calling as the Church’s TOP, No. #1 agenda, because . . .

· It was for Jesus (Mark 1:15; Matt. 6:33)

· It’s why the Church and Christians are here on this earth

But what do you think?

“The eschatology of abandonment is being succeeded by

an engaging gospel of the kingdom.”

“We Christians cannot continue to avoid knowing what we already know: that something is rotten in the state of our religion.”

“True prophets (those who bring a new word from God to assist in the current process of emergence) are crucified; false prophets (those who promise shortcuts that will cause regression or stagnation) are made rich and famous.”

Brian D. McLaren, a Generous Orthodoxy

(Grand Rapids, MI.: Zondervan, 2004),

237, 268, 285.

For More on John Noē’s restoration and unification ministry, and his speaking, teaching, and writing topics, please visit:

www.prophecyrefi.org

click on:

New academic journal article

New theological breakthrough article

New book now available

Three theological papers for restoring the kingdom of God worldview

New big-screen Hollywood movie

“9.5 Theses for the Next Reformation”

Previous books

Information button articles

And more

To order copies of this booklet, contract:

John Noē, Ph.D.

Prophecy Reformation Institute

5236 East 72nd Street

Indianapolis, IN 46250

Ph. # 317-842-3411

jnoe@prophecyrefi.org

[1] An excerpted transcription from: Laurence White, For Such a Time as This, (Colorado Springs, CO.: Focus on the Family, BR292/22119, 1998, 1999), audio cassette, side 1.



------

John Noe is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.

View John Noe archives

Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.


 
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Re: You Can't Lose Something You Never Had (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Friday, October 12 @ 17:08:15 PDT
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Well,

The short answer to the question, "Why Are Christians Losing America?" is that they don't learn from History and that they probably aren't Christians.

I was going to pass on commenting on this one, because it seemed like it was just a springboard for internal squables among statists. And it was, as some comment bear out: "I am with you. I would love to see the Laws of this country be based upon doing what God likes and not doing what God dislikes."

But I had some time and decided to engage some of this "We're losing America" and "Let's take it back" talk as just a repackaging of the old Crusader mentality.

After the Church was offered, and accepted, a position as a State Corporation in 312 AD, by Caesar Constantine, the Roman Catholic Church was born. And that organization was a horror to all of humanity. It quickly lost the cultural battle for the birthplace of Christianity and Asia Minor, causing a spiritual vacuum to give reason for being to a brand new religion, Islam, only a few hundred years later.

And so, that malignant of a Corrupt Church and a Hostile State produced a Pope, who beside ordering the murder of unrepentant "heretic" Christians, in 1099, decided to "take back" Jerusalem by called all good Catholics to take the so-called Holy Land from the infidels, assuring them that their sins would be completely forgiven.

Surprisingly, with only 13,000 Crusaders, against 60,000 Muslims, on Friday, July 15th, the Crusaders prevailed, and proceeded to massacre 100,000 men, women, children, and infants. And admidst the piles of heads, corpses, and blood, the Crusaders rejoiced, saying, "'This is the Day that the Lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it,' for on this day the Lord revealed Himself to His people and blessed them."

Is that the Kingdom of our Lord?

And Protestants were no better. They and the Roman Catholics went to murdering each other for a 30 Year War, until Westphalia. Then when the statist Puritans arrived in North America, having escaped religious persecution, they went about persecuting Quakers, and are known to have murdered about a dozen of them.

Now, I know that Dr. Noe is not espousing keeping or getting "America" (excluding Canadian and Mexicans, presumably) back by slaying all those who do not confess Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. But he suggesting that "Christians" should dominate the State and effect Police Power in such a way as to coerce or imprison all those who resist new "Christianized" legislation and enforcement.

Is that the Kingdom of our Lord?

The Dispensationalists would say, "Yeah, that's what it's supposed to be, and what it will be in the Millennium, after the Second Coming."

Of course, Preterists know Dispensationalists are wrong about what and when Christ's Kingdom is.

But almost all Preterists are still falling for the Statist and Reconstructionist paradigms, which seek to serve their Idol or Golden Calf with more zeal.

"America" is a continent. Virgil made a good point about it being something that Christians never had to possess. Squabbling over State Power and draping it in imprecise language is for Statists, Corporate and Big Business Interests, and the Homosexual Lobby. Of course, if the state-incorporated churchgoers want to get in there and wrestle with them, I think they are being worse than foolish.

Christ warned the Seven Early Churches about how to keep their place in His Kingdom, so they didn't "lose" their place, for example:

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Rev. 2:5

The Candlesticks are not kept in a State Assembly or in the District of Columbia.

Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone


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Re: Why Are Christians Losing America? (Score: 1)
by tom-g on Friday, October 12 @ 08:51:51 PDT
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Hey everyone,

It seems obvious none of you even understand what Parker is advocating. His comments seem to be the only voice of reason and truth, advocating the fundamental political philosophy of the United States.

It is possible to understand and even make allowances for a non native American's lack of comprehension of our American system, due to the scarring and emotional trauma caused by growing up under a foreign system. Therefore, the invalid use of the words "Government or State", as an impersonal independent coercive force, in conversations about our American system, instead of the valid use of the first person singular personal pronoun when identifying that coercive force, might be overlooked. For all others it is intellectually and morally indefensible.

It seems Parker is the only one, of those who have commented, who comprehends the meaning of the political philosophy contained in our "Declaration of Independence".

This nation of ours was formed upon a new and different idea that had not existed in the history of civilization. The idea that individuals could govern themselves by voluntarily choosing to separate themselves from all other nations and establish a nation consecrated to God and dedicated to preserving each individual's God given rights through just laws that they themselves established through the majority approval of their own neighbors that they would choose for that purpose. These persons, no different than any of those who chose them, would hold that position of trust for a period of time and then return to the body of persons from which they were chosen and would then also be subject to the laws they passed. As a proof of the dedication of these voluntarily chosen representatives to the fundamental truths they were expressing, they all dedicated their own personal lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to accomplishing those ends.

Based upon those simple axioms and to prevent a tyranny of either the majority or minority, through voluntary social cooperation, they established and ordained the Constitution of the United States, containing validly formed statutory theorems as the supreme law of the US, and every judge in every state was bound thereby.

This system of voluntary social cooperation is the system that I understand Parker to be advocating. It requires the voluntary cooperation of individuals banded together to accomplish the goal of choosing by the affirmation of a majority of individual citizens, the proper person to represent them by passing laws that are compatible with the goals of a majority of those who make that choice.

As a Republic and not a Democracy, the decision of a majority of the elected representatives is required, not a majority of the people directly, to establish the laws that we agree will govern us.

This I understand is what Parker is advocating, as citizens, each of us individually, (that means the first person singular personal pronoun) has the absolute responsibility to actively participate in lawfully maintaining this consecrated nation.

So, who are the persons responsible for the departure of our nation from the primary truths and first principles upon which it was founded? That person, represented by the first person singular personal pronoun, that looks back at you every day in the mirror.

Regards,
Tom


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Is America ours to lose? (Score: 1)
by Virgil on Thursday, October 11 @ 07:23:57 PDT
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John, I am not sure I am ready to accept the premise that America is ours to lose.

First, let me recommend Greg Boyd's book, The Myth of a Christian Nation : How the Quest for Political Power Is Destroying the Church. Jared's interview with Greg is posted here on this website and it may shed some light on this topic from a different perspective.

Secondly, I would like to point out how dangerous the idea that Christianity can only progress through political (and consequently cultural) victories is. This is also a fallacy and it does not deal with the nature of the Kingdom of God..which "is not of this world." Whether we are conservative or liberal Christians, focusing on "eternal life in heaven" is misguided and it perhaps unintentionally mis-directs our efforts to something intangible...something that is always in the tomorrow. I would ask "Is that what Christ wants? Is that what the Kingdom is about? Is that what eternal life is about?"

If you are willing to clearly delineate the differences between politics and culture, then I am with you and I agree with what you are saying, but those differences need to be explored and discussed. But if your premise is that this country belongs to "Christians" or that it is a "Christian nation" I cannot accept that notion. We can clearly find Christian principles throughout history, laws and politics, but let's not kid ourselves - this country is not ours to lose.

People like James Dobson and others like to think so...and I love it when Dobson gets on the radio and pontificates about how things should be and should not be, who should and should not be president, and how legislating morality will supposedly bring us all closer to the very throne of God. I am not buying it. Until Christians can offer a message that will grab the WILLING hearts of ALL people (not just Americans or just Christians), I believe that we will not be in step with what God wants with this entire world, not just a nation that may not even be around a few thousand years from now.


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Re: Why Are Christians Losing America? (Score: 1)
by Parker on Wednesday, October 10 @ 14:09:59 PDT
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Christians are losing America because we are not unified. Without common authority/leadership structure, common goals, and common mission, nothing can be done in response to x,y, or z problem. Nothing.

Protestantism, as a way of being One Church, is the central cause of this organizational chaos. We have probably over 100 million devout Christians in this country, yet different denominations all pull separately, reducing the collective power of The Church to random local gatherings for bible studies and such. Without a common organizational structure in tact, individual protestants are helpless to rally together against any evil in our day. The "Church is invisible" theology has failed.

The only solution is for us all to rally to a common social party, such as the Republican Party, or the America First Party, or the Christian Party. The reason we must go that route is because there is no way to organize protestants together otherwise. It would be nice if we were all part of the one historic Church that Jesus originally founded--that could be our organizing structure--but alas Luther has frustrated that unity for centuries, and protestants can't even unite with protestants. (Perhaps denominationalism's days are numbered -- we can only hope.)

In the meantime, protestants and Catholics must continue to seek common ground and work to form coalitions based on the social and moral issues that we care deeply about. Yes, the groups must be action based, and they must seek to integrate Christian values into all aspects of life and society. Anything less will be utterly impotent.


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