 |
 |
|
As I was ministering to someone, what I call a blocking demon took control of them. Blocking demons have very unique types of functions. They do strange things. But these strange things are diversionary mechanisms so that the exorcism cannot proceed. This demon somehow lowered the body temperature of this person - I mean their lips turned blue. They were dying. -- Bob Larson Live, March 26, 1996 |
|
 |  |
Preterism: Three Foundational Flaws of Partial Preterism: A Response to Keith Mathison's Book, 'When Shall These Things Be?'
Posted on Thursday, March 29 @ 13:23:49 PDT by Virgil |
|
by John Noē, Ph.D.
Once again, I, along with others, have been branded “heretics”[1] by a few partial-preterist, reformed scholars in Keith Mathison’s new book When Shall These Things Be? A Reformed Response to Hyper-Preterism Phillipsburg, NJ.: P&R Publishing, 2004), pp. 10, 352).[2] If this type of treatment from fellow Christians is part of the cost of understanding and believing that Jesus said what He meant, meant what He said, and kept his promise to come again on the clouds in age-ending judgment exactly as and when He said He would, then so be it. Likewise, if this type of treatment comes from affirming that the Holy-Spirit-led expectations of the New Testament writers and the early Church were the correct ones, then praise the Lord. We are in good company here.
Moreover, I have seen nothing, scripturally or historically, in Mathison’s book, or elsewhere, to dissuade me from my belief that Jesus did in fact come again and all other associated eschatological events were fulfilled exactly as and when promised and expected.[3] Therefore, these words of Jesus have special meaning and are a comfort for me, and perhaps will be for some of you as well: "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matt. 5:11-12).
Sad to say, the history of Christianity has been beset with Christians persecuting other Christians. But how should one begin a heresy defense? I suggest it should be with conciliatory words such as, “Come now, let us reason together” (Isa. 1:18).
Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard, Jr. in their hermeneutical textbook, Introduction to Biblical Interpretation (also cited by Richard L Pratt, Jr., p. 123, footnote 4) raise two appropriate questions in this regard: “What are we to do when interpreters disagree? How do we proceed when well-intentioned Christians come to different interpretations about the meaning of a text or passage?” Their answer is twofold: First, we should set out precisely the nature of the difference . . . . Second . . . . did either interpreter misconstrue some evidence or engage in shoddy reasoning, or were there other flaws in the process that indicate one of the positions must be relinquished.[4]
Accordingly, this response will address the three major foundational flaws, along with numerous examples of misconstrued “evidence” and engagement in “shoddy reasoning,” that prevents partial preterists from accepting a full preterist understanding. Others will no doubt speak to other flaws contained in Mathison’s book.
The three foundational flaws of partial preterism to be covered herein are:
1) “How could anyone possibly believe this?”
2) A false dichotomizing hermeneutic.
3) The deception of the elect.
Before proceeding, however, I must respond to one personal item raised by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr. Critically and rightly, he pointed out that when I wrote my book Beyond the End Times in 1999, I had “had no formal seminary training.” He then characterized my scholarly deficiency as an “(all too typical) problem” (p. 4) which, in the (full) preterist movement, has produced “a small band of untrained theological innovators” (p. 45) who “feign[s] ‘scholarship’” (p. 61), “are largely unschooled in the standard theological disciplines,” and are “disoriented by theological naivetй” (p. 61). Next, he associated me with classic dispensationalists, “popularizers: Dave Hunt . . . and Tim LaHaye,” with whom I apparently share this similar deficiency (p.4, footnote 14).
Perhaps, Dr. Gentry will be pleased to discover that this has all changed. After the release of Beyond the End Times, I began work on a Ph.D. in Theology from an institution for which he serves as an adjunct professor. In 2003, I finished my courses, successfully defended by dissertation (before three premillennialist professors), and completed my degree. What Dr. Gentry may not be so pleased to discover is that in my now “formally trained” status there is only one thing that I have written previously that I would retract or change. [For more on this, click on “He Never Left” on this site’s home page.[ With that said, let’s begin, as we expose the three foundational flaws of partial preterism.
Click here to read the entire article
|
| |
 |
|
Average Score: 5 Votes: 1
|
|
 |
^^Go to Top - E-mail to Friend - Print - View PDF - Subscribe - Comments RSS
Re: Three Foundational Flaws of Partial Preterism: A Response to Keith Mathison's Boo (Score: 1)
by davecollins on Thursday, March 29 @ 21:05:32 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Great points Dr. Noe. Unfortunately logic never wins over emotion... In my experiences with the so called eschatology experts, the main obstacle in their way of discovering these truths is the emotion of fear. Fear that does not allow an open, honest examination of the timing and nature passages. Their fear is focused in 3 areas, primarily.Loss of job, loss of friends, and loss of prestige. It takes a faith based courage to stand alone on the Word of God. Full Preterists' understand the cost and are willing to be "heretical", in the majorities view, as they are convinced that a 1st century, fulfilled covenant eschatology is what Jesus promised and accomplished. Dr. MacArthur, and others mentioned, are sincere Christian teachers , but they lack the spiritual discernment and the courage{ He would have to renounce His Grandfathers view, His Dads view , and his own view of 50 years or more } to understand eschatological truths.Dr. Gentry is wrong if he believes it takes trained "scholarship" to understand the words of Jesus and the apostles... being able to read or hear is sufficient, when only truth is sought,no matter the cost. Thank You for your integrity and your courage in presenting the biblical view.
|
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by ThomasS on Friday, March 30 @ 00:41:35 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Friday, March 30 @ 01:31:02 PDT
- by ThomasS on Friday, March 30 @ 04:00:46 PDT
- by davecollins on Friday, March 30 @ 12:47:52 PDT
- by ThomasS on Saturday, March 31 @ 09:42:11 PDT
Re: Three Foundational Flaws of Partial Preterism: A Response to Keith Mathison's Boo (Score: 1)
by ThomasS on Friday, March 30 @ 00:31:01 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Dear Dr. Noē,
This is very useful. Thanks!
Best regards
Th.S. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
Re: Three Foundational Flaws of Partial Preterism: A Response to Keith Mathison's Boo (Score: 1)
by Islamaphobe on Saturday, March 31 @ 06:43:53 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | | This is a very fine article, clearly written, logically presented, and well referenced. It amply demonstrates, in my view, the hopelessness of trying to preserve a scriptural basis for the position that Jesus was not present on Earth in AD 70. It also does an effective job of challenging the belief that Scripture contains prophecies of the "end of time" or the "end of human history." I am in complete agreement with John N. that the prophecies of Daniel 2 and 7 point to the "kingdom of Christ that was established on this earth back in the 1st century" is to "increase" and to be around "forever." That, to me, is what the Book of Daniel clearly indicates, and I agree that other expressions of this idea of a permanent, earthly kingdom are found in the OT.
I do not recall seeing in the article a precise statement about just what a full preterist (FP) is. John's idea seems to me to be that a FP is one who believes that the Parousia occurred with the Jewish War of the first century. My impression is that there are some in the FP camp who hold that all biblical prophecy was fulfilled in the first century and who would deny John's doctrinal "purity" because of his understanding of prophecies such as those of Daniel 2 and 7. I noticed that in John's other recent article posted here, he recognized the validity of allowing some idealism to be admitted into his hermeneutics, and I was delighted that he did so. To me, at least, that at least opens the door to an understanding of Revelation 20 that allows preterism to escape what I am increasingly coming to regard as the straitjacket of a forty-year millennium.
John S. Evans
|
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Ed on Saturday, March 31 @ 14:28:50 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Saturday, March 31 @ 14:56:57 PDT
Re: When did the millennium begin? (Score: 1)
by Duncan on Saturday, March 31 @ 08:29:42 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | John Evans,
I love your 40 year straight jacket quip (the comment above). I think Daniel 7 is the foundation of Bible prophecy (a foundation that full preterism has not fully dealt with). When one examines Dan. 7, it shows the beginning of the millennium (thrones put in place 7:9 as the court is seated 7:10). This corresponds to the thrones being put in place for the beginning of the millennium in Rev. 20:4.
So when was the court seated? Read Daniel 7:23-27; it was at the time that dominion was taken away from the little eleventh horn. THAT WAS NOT AD 30 FOLKS THAT WAS AD 70 (for the record John Evans and I disagree on who the little horn was but I think we both agree that his dominion was taken away and given to the saints at AD 70; thus an AD 70 beginning of the millennium).
The sequence is also clear in Dan. 7:21-22. 1. The little horn overcomes the saints (the great tribulation). 2. The Ancient of Days Comes (the AD 70 Parousia). The saints possess the kingdom (the millennium begins). This sequence is shown in Rev. 19:11-20:4 (The Word of God comes and defeats the beast and then the millennium begins).
Duncan |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by thebigbus on Saturday, March 31 @ 10:07:49 PDT
- by Duncan on Saturday, March 31 @ 10:26:22 PDT
- by chrisliv on Saturday, March 31 @ 11:57:01 PDT
- by davo on Sunday, April 01 @ 11:27:22 PDT
- by chrisliv on Sunday, April 01 @ 12:28:17 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, April 01 @ 15:34:45 PDT
- by chrisliv on Sunday, April 01 @ 16:11:49 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, April 01 @ 17:35:15 PDT
- by chrisliv on Sunday, April 01 @ 21:49:44 PDT
- by Barry on Monday, April 02 @ 07:49:26 PDT
- by chrisliv on Monday, April 02 @ 13:20:21 PDT
- by Barry on Monday, April 02 @ 21:12:16 PDT
- by chrisliv on Tuesday, April 03 @ 00:33:12 PDT
- by Barry on Tuesday, April 03 @ 06:49:33 PDT
- by chrisliv on Tuesday, April 03 @ 10:41:15 PDT
- by davo on Tuesday, April 03 @ 04:52:15 PDT
- by chrisliv on Tuesday, April 03 @ 11:46:32 PDT
- by davo on Tuesday, April 03 @ 18:09:04 PDT
- by chrisliv on Tuesday, April 03 @ 21:46:04 PDT
- by davo on Wednesday, April 04 @ 04:23:17 PDT
- by chrisliv on Wednesday, April 04 @ 13:34:58 PDT
- by davo on Wednesday, April 04 @ 17:31:19 PDT
- by chrisliv on Wednesday, April 04 @ 18:28:46 PDT
- by davo on Thursday, April 05 @ 11:54:50 PDT
- by chrisliv on Thursday, April 05 @ 15:06:04 PDT
- by davo on Thursday, April 05 @ 20:19:52 PDT
- by chrisliv on Friday, April 06 @ 01:49:50 PDT
- by davo on Friday, April 06 @ 08:34:24 PDT
- by davo on Tuesday, April 03 @ 20:08:57 PDT
|
|