You are hereIt's About Time ( With printable time-table)
It's About Time ( With printable time-table)
As Abraham said to the rich man in Hades (Luke 16) "...between us and you a great chasm has been fixed...", so there is a great chasm between the paradigm's of dispensational futurists and preterists, particularly unabashed full preterists like me. However, there are two differences- 1.)God didn't fix this chasm, and 2.)This one can be crossed through reason, prayer, and honest consideration. The chasm is created by two dynamics. The first is beginning with the assumption that eschatological texts in the scriptures are to be understood literally/physically. That is to say Jesus is coming on a literal, physical cloud, the literal sun will physically be darkened, and the physical stars will fall from the heavens while the physical earth catches on fire physically. This, then, engages the second dynamic-elasticizing time statements beyond recognition. By this I mean taking words and phrases like "soon, at hand, quickly,last times, last hour, and this generation, etc." and redefining them to allow 2000 years to fit within their meaning. A couple years ago I made a presentation at the Presence Ministry's Transmillenial conference in Colorado Springs which I entitled A WORLD IN THE GUNLAP. The title came from track and field competition, where the mile run takes place on a track where four quarter mile laps are run to create one mile. When the runners enter the last lap a gun sounds to signal they are in the end lap, nearing completion of the race. It is readily apparent that Jesus and the inspired writers of the New Testament unquestioningly considered themselves to have entered the gun lap of God's prophetic promises. I am going to include a usable table of biblical texts in the end of this article which may be printed and used for study and sharing.
However, if I begin with the assumption that the eschatological texts (including resurrection) were intended to be understood physically, then I must take the multitude of time statements which overwhelmingly portray first century fulfillment expectations, and stretch them beyond bounds allowed by academic integrity. For additional consideration I recommend Don Preston' CAN GOD TELL TIME? And also attending this year's TruthVoice 2007 conference in which longtime preterist advocate and teacher Marvin Jacobs will present a session entitled SPIRITUAL THINGS ARE SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTOOD.
Other articles in the Planet Preterist archives deal with the fact that prophetic language contains rich figurative language, filled with beautiful metaphors and powerful hyperbole, etc. Make no mistake- though these texts contain figures of speech, those figures portray real things and events. "Desert Storm" is a figure of speech that designated real events, not imaginary! The purpose of this writing is to share a collection of time statements in gathered form for use in study and sharing with others.
It is important to note that, though some time statements are matter-of-fact obvious, some are discerned through more than surface thinking. An example is the text of 2 Thessalonians 1:3-10, which at first glance may not seem to deal with the time of its fulfillment. However, it does so in a clear and powerful way. The contemporary Thessalonian brethren of Paul were told by inspiration that they would be granted relief from their present persecution and judgment would be brought on their contemporary oppressors WHEN JESUS WAS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN WITH HIS MIGHTY ANGELS IN FLAMING FIRE. If one takes the position that this is to be physically understood, one concludes it did not happen, and is about future, as yet unfulfilled, events. The problem that arises from this superficial treatment of the text is that an inspired writer becomes guilty of error and false hope. Paul told those brethren that they would be granted rest by Jesus' coming, not by everyone eventually dying. The preterist view reveals the consistency of scripture. Jesus' coming was spiritual in nature (similar to the coming of the lord in Isaiah 19:1 in judgment on Egypt-though much more far-reaching in God's unfolding plan), and the empire-wide Jewish persecution of fledgling Christianity by Christ-rejecting Israel came to a screeching halt following the devastation of Jerusalem and the temple. Note the source of the Thessalonians consternation in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16, and the assurance there that God would soon deal with them. The Thessalonian brethren were granted rest in their lifetime, because Jesus did come again, as he promised, to grant them rest from those persecutions. This time boundary is in the text clearly for those who believe in its inspiration. 2 Thessalonians 2 also contains obvious and not so obvious time parameters.
Here is a collection of texts which contain powerful and clear time parameters for the fulfillment of God's wonderful promises:
Matthew 10:23 (RSV)23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next; for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes.
Matthew 16:27-28 (RSV)27 For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.”
Luke 18:6-8 (RSV)6 And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says.7 And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?8 I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
Luke 21:20; 27; 32 (RSV)20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near….27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory….32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place.
Romans 13:11-12 (RSV)11 Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;12 the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Romans 16:20 (RSV)20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
1 Corinthians 7:29; 31 (RSV)29 I mean, brethren, the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,31 and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the form of this world is passing away.
1 Corinthians 10:11 (RSV)11 Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages has come.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 (RSV)14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus which are in Judea; for you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews,15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all men16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they may be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But God’s wrath has come upon them at last!
2 Thessalonians 1:3-10 (RSV)-3 We are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, as is fitting, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. 4 Therefore we ourselves boast of you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions which you are enduring.
5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering— 6 since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-7 (RSV)
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren,
2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this?
6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
1 Peter 4:7; 17 (RSV)7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers….17 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Hebrews 10:37 (RSV)37 “For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry;
Hebrews 10:37 (NA27)37 έτι γὰρ μικρὸν όσον όσον,ο ερχόμενος ήξει καὶ ου χρονίσει• (μικρὸν (micron)-little while, όσον όσον (hoson hoson)-very, very)
Hebrews 12:18-29 (RSV)18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire, and darkness, and gloom, and a tempest,19 and the sound of a trumpet, and a voice whose words made the hearers entreat that no further messages be spoken to them.20 For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.”21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.”22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel. 25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less shall we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.26 His voice then shook the earth; but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heaven.”27 This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of what is shaken, as of what has been made, in order that what cannot be shaken may remain.28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe;29 for our God is a consuming fire.
James 5:3; 5; 7-9 (RSV)3 Your gold and silver have rusted, and their rust will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure for the last days.5 You have lived on the earth in luxury and in pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.7 Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it until it receives the early and the late rain.8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.9 Do not grumble, brethren, against one another, that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the doors.
1 Peter 4:7; 17 (RSV)7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore keep sane and sober for your prayers….17 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1 John 2:8; 18 (RSV)8 Yet I am writing you a new commandment, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.18 Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.
Revelation 1:1; 3 (RSV)1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,3 Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near.
Revelation 22:6-7; 10; 12; 20 (RSV)6 And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.7 And behold, I am coming soon.” Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book. 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. 20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!
Revelation 22:20 (NA27)20 Λέγει ο μαρτυρων ταυτα, Ναί, έρχομαι ταχύ. ’Αμήν, έρχου κύριε ’Ιησου̂.
To sum up:
1.) Study of prophetic texts reveals the use of rich symbolism and powerful figurative language to portray real events in God's wonderful unfolding plan of redemption. The symbols connect historical occurences with spiritual realities. The parousia of Christ and the presence of God are actual spiritual realities which were fulfilled 2000 years ago and are our present treasure. Take off your shoes...you are standing on Holy ground.
2.) Clear time parameters are presented by inspired writers. When the rich figurative language of prophetic texts is properly understood, the time parameters need zero stretching.
3.) The harmony of these two factors is not created by human reasoning, but the inspiration of the texts themselves. It bears out that which we all hold true- the divinity of Christ and the inspiration of scripture.
Terry M. Hall
Dayton, Ohio
I'm still having a hard time reconciling:
A) The spiritualizing approach to Revelation 20:1-10's "The 1,000 Years" time Texts taken by some Preterists
with
B) The strictly literal approach that deduced the Lord's 70AD Return in the first place - by those very same Preterists!
Example) Can God Tell Time?
https://www.eschatology.org/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=...
B) Preston writes, "Bible writers and Jesus repeatedly said the second coming of Christ was to occur in the first century. Skeptics say he failed and that the Bible is not inspired. This booklet shows that time statements by God are to be taken at face value and that Jesus kept his word." ~Don K. Preston
A) This same Don Preston, as do many "Full Preterists" here, goes on to employ the same arguments from 2 Peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4 as the futurists do to say that "God does not measure time the way we do" when it comes to Revelation 20:1-10's "The 1,000 Years" aka "The Millennium." This is how he places Rev 20:1-10's "1,000 Years" Millennium into the 40 years of 30-70AD or, when pressed on the matter, into the less than 14 years from Romans 16:20 to 70AD.
So which is it now?
B) God CAN tell time - therefore Rev 20:1-10's "Thousand Years" is an actual 1,000 years as men count them.
OR
A) God CANNOT really tell time - therefore anything goes when it comes to "Time Texts."
CAN GOD TELL TIME OR NOT?
I'm getting a little tired of the tired old Full Preterist approach to 2 Peter 3:8, “Well, with the Lord one day is as a 1000 years, or as an even 40, maybe a shag less than 14 years, or not: the Lord really cannot tell time.” Futurists wore that one out long before Preterists thought to use it. But wasn't that approach exactly why we left Futurism?
"30-70AD Millennialism is Challenged at Preterist Pilgrim Weekend 2006"
http://tulsapreterists.org/node/92
Son of perdition is mentioned only twice in the entire Bible, but must be an important end time sign or prophecy
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
This could be an explanation of the son of perdition
he will return
John,
I believe John's millenium originates from the long-life-spans recorded in Genesis and prophesied in Isaiah 65.
Notice that the patriarchs in Genesis (as blessed as they were to live in covenant with God) never lived a thousand years. That symbolic feat was accomplished only when Christ finished salvation for his people.
Isaiah promised that in the New Heavens and Earth that he who died at a 100 would be considered a youth. This matches the full-life the believers received (10X100) through the coming of the Messiah and his salvation from the curse and sin death. They lived 1000 years which is merely another way of saying that they enjoyed eternal life. All those who believe today live forever (which is symbolically 1000 years).
The millenium is a (symbolic) life-span of the redeemed. John's millenium originates in the (symbolic) life-spans recorded among God's covenant people in Genesis.
That proves that John has 1 generation (40 years) in view in Rev. 20. "THEY lived... a thousand years" Rev. 20:4. Notice the pronoun "they"? John is not talking about generations upon generations of people into the distant future (of a literal 1000 years or thousands of years). John is speaking about the same people - 1 generation - the firstfruits who received eternal life through Christ by faith. This eternal life began during the ministry of Christ (which is also when Satan was bound).
Blessings,
Tim Martin
www.truthinliving.org
P.S. Remember that preterism is about interpreting Scripture with Scripture, not primarily a "literal" or "spiritual" interpretaion.
Tim,
If 1000 years is merely another way of saying they received eternal life, how do you then view Re 20:5? "(The rest of the dead do not live until the thousand years should be finished.) This is the former resurrection."
Are you essentially saying that the rest of the dead do not live until eternal life had been accompished for this first fruits generation?
I know this is an old article and your thoughts regarding your own comments may be stale, but I hoped you might engage me! Peace.
Rock
plymouthrock!
Rock,
I have an entire chapter in my book with Jeff Vaughn (chapter 16) dedicated to the connection between the long life spans in Genesis and the Millennium as a long life span in Revelation. You will find that on pages 307-317 of Beyond Creation Science.
The basic answer to your question is "yes." I'd be happy to talk more about the topic once you understand my wider view of the Millennium as an apocalyptic life-span of the redeemed, as prophesied in Isaiah 65, and first introduced in the very first few chapters of Genesis.
Or to put it another way, I believe there is perfect consistency between the communication of (symbolic) life-spans from Genesis through Isaiah to Revelation. BTW, I have received very positive feedback regarding that chapter.
Blessings,
Tim Martin
www.beyondcreationscience.com
Thanks Tim for the rapid response. This '1000 year' thing has been the bane of my existence since I embarked on the SS Preterist. Your comments here were certainly helpful/insightful.
I was to pick up a copy from JL at Mars Hill, but I never got a chance to make it to one of the meetings. Is there an avenue for me to order it here? If not, I'm to see JL on June 7th - maybe I can get one from him then.
Yes, I would love to really dig into the whole topic, if you would.
plymouthrock!
Rock,
Best to get a copy from Jeff...
Talk later,
Tim
No worries, just ordered it. Later...
plymouthrock!
Will be out the door tomorrow...
Tim
John,
Let me share a little Hebrew literature with you that may help you conceptualize that when the Jews used numerology they may not be doing so in the western (Greek) mindset. If we keep coming at this 1000 years as a Greek then we may never grasp it the way that it was intended by the Jews. And of course I assume you recognize the mixed language of Revelation. Imagery language coupled with straightforward language. I believe you would recognize the imagery of the beast, dragon etcetera and would not take it as unusual within the context of Revelations apocalyptic language purpose. So can the special Jewish forms of accepted numerology be included in apocalyptic style literature would be the question.
Let’s start looking at some of the ancient literature.
Jubilees 4:29… thereof, Adam died,….. And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; FOR ONE THOUSAND YEARS ARE AS ONE DAY in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die.' For this reason he
did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.
Jubilees is a Jewish writing that was quite popular especially with the early Christians in the first century. It is a form of commentary in my estimation. In the above quote we have almost the very word for word quote (a thousand years are like a day) from this early text as we find in 2nd Peter .
(2 Pet 3:8 NIV) ….: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
This Jubilees writing dates to around 200 to 100 BC and was influential on Jews and Christians at the time of Christ. The natural question arises whether this is being referenced by Peter in his letter. Well let’s take a look at another early writing that utilizes this same language.
Barnabas 15: …for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years
Now Barnabas is considered to have been written around 70AD and also uses the similar phrase that we found in Jubilees and so we have two AD60’s to 70’s writers pulling from the terminology of Jubiless. It appears that this saying by Peter is very familiar with the Jewish/Christian crowd at the time and they understood its Jewish contextual meaning.
Consider the way it is utilized in Jubileess, It is commenting that Adams death did not meet the perfect 1000 years of expected eternal significance. Keep that in mind when you read Revelation 20 concerning who was being considered as worthy of the 1000 years in its context. Was it those who now were able to reach the eternal 1000 years but only through Christ? Adam could not join into the 1000 years until Christ came and only then could those OT worthies who were residing in Abrahams Bosom or “sleeping” eventually reach the complete 1000 years eternal goal. So 1000 years is Jewish numeral symbolism signifying eternal salvation, which fits in with the other language symbolism of Revelation.
Notice also that the Jubilees writer renders the 1000 years as “one day” and that “day” is significant terminology that is constantly utilized in scripture to indicate important events and is used metaphorically very often. This is again why we must study the context of scriptures and put ourselves into the mind of the Jew and not the mind of the Greek.
Take a look at another Barnabas statement.
“Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.”
We have here the extrapolation by Barnabas of using the “day” and “thousand years” to discuss the ending of the OT covenant. Quite an interesting Jewish understanding of numerology it appears.
Let’s now consider a quote from the Book of Enoch concerning this eternal life.
Enoch :…But for the elect there shall be light and joy and peace,…..
And they shall not again transgress,
Nor shall they sin all the days of their life,
Nor shall they die of (the divine) anger or wrath,
But THEY SHALL COMPLETE THE NUMBER OF THE DAYS OF THEIR LIFE.
We now have another early Jewish writing picking up the idea that Jubiless also mentioned about Adam. That those who are in Christ/God will live the complete eternal life, they will fulfill their days in contrast to Adam not fulfilling his. Also consider the excerpt from Isaiah 65 discussing the New Heavens and Earth and what the blessings will be, do you start to see the common denominator which is the language associated with eternal life.
(Isa 65:20 NRSV) No more shall there be in it an infant that lives but a few days, or an old person who does not live out a lifetime; for one who dies at a hundred years will be considered a youth, and one who falls short of a hundred will be considered accursed.
Enoch: for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for THEY HOPE TO LIVE AN ETERNAL LIFE, and that each one of them will LIVE FIVE HUNDRED YEARS.'
This is from a Jewish discussion of the days of Noah discussing what was going to happen to the corrupted sons of God. I’ve listed the Genesis except for reference and now I will list also the Enoch excerpt that concludes their fate. Also the Book of Enoch is considered to have been written around the 200 to 100 BC time frame as well.
(Gen 5:32 KJV) And Noah was FIVE HUNDRED years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Enoch: …bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is
for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all generations.
John I propose that because of the Jewish understanding of its special literature dealing with apocalyptic language as well as special Jewish numerology that they would have readily grasped the significance of the 1000 year metaphor as equating to a fulfilled eternal period of time and they would not have been inclined to have forgotten that meaning because they at that time had not become Hellenized to the extent that they forgot their heritage and its language. John would have expected them to understand the 1000 years just as Peter and Barnabas did with their audience.
Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and locked and sealed it over him, so that he would deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be let out for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and those seated on them were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
John just one more example of Jewish numerology and how it affected their dating, take a look at the life spans attributed to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and notice how the Jewish literature appeared to be fascinated with numbers. Do you see that the life span of Joseph is a culmination of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob numerically?
Abra 175 years = 7 X 25 (5)squared
Isaac 180 years = 5 X 36 (6)squared
Jacob 147 years = 3 X 49 (7)squared
Joseph 110 years = 1 X 25+36+49
Blessings
Norm
Nice article! I have been looking to memorize scripture supporting fulfilled prophecy and these passages make good candidates. I'll have to whittle it down though since just committing Col 1:15-20 has taken me weeks.
The term gun lap was actually unknown to me, and I think that bell lap is more common. I think a bell has replaced the gun. Nowadays, after the start the only other time you hear a gun is to stop the race and call the racers back after a false start. Or in some sports like short track speedskating to stop the race because a skater is down and not able to recover fast enough to resume after a crash.
I see you use the RSV for the quotes. Any particular reason? The reading of 2 Thes 2:3 really strikes me as different in referring to a rebellion and not a falling away as in most translations. This reading helps support the interpretation that it refers to Jewish rebels/zealots that took control of the temple and not an apostasy of early Christians. These days I lean towards the antichrist/man of sin being Simon bar Giora and this reading helps me in that.
Thanks for the article,
John
Speaking of the RSV, I am wondering how any group of translators or scholars could have transtated, as in Galatians and Colossians, "stoicheon" as "ELEMENTAL SPIRITS OF THE UNIVERSE", when every other bible I have checked has translated it as "rudiments" or "elements", with the context in both places pointing to the elemental principles of the Mosaic Law.
I am not a Greek scholar, but I know the alphabet and can read an interlinear. I don't see the word "pneuma" anywhere in a Greek text of Galatians or Colossians in conjunction with "stoicheon". Am I paranoid to think that perhaps somebody is trying to muddy the waters with such a translation? However excellent the RSV might be in other areas, this glaring fault calls the whole work into question, in my mind.
albert burke
Even more distressing, check the ESV (which I really like so far-with this exception) in 2 Peter 3. Notice how they translate stoicheon. So good in so much, then this one place k-fizzles.
I looked up 2 Peter 3. I didn't know what ESV meant, but I do now. That's pathetic.
albert burke
I'm obviously not the most up to date track & field guy...but I do run 4 miles every day.
I began using the RSV when some of my college professors used it as a text for their classes. I have researched many of the time statements in the Greek and find the RSV and NASB are excellent in reflecting the original tenses. As an example, I would refer to Hebrews 9:8-9. Over the years the RSV has become comfortable, like an old shoe, and I believe reliable. Though I read Greek, I do not claim to be a Greek scholar. I will look at the passage you mentioned. Thanks!
John, if I may also recommend a couple of resources, on preterism.com we have a very detailed Outline to Preterism and an extensive Frequently Asked Questions. Check them out:
http://preterism.com
I made the modest new years resolution of memorizing 45 verses (my soon to be age). Don't be fooled by the photo - its from a student ID card when I was about 22. Thanks for the link. This outline has many references that might be useful to commit to memory. A note, on the section APOSTASY: Did you really mean "Hebrews reflects Jews apostatizing and returning to Judaism"?
Regard,
John
The printable time table I am referring to is the extensive list of scriptures that follows the introductory comments. They were originally set off from the body of the article in bold text. I thought that would make it easy to simply highlight, then print all those time references as a reference table.When I filed it, somehow the offset and bold text didn't appear properly. Sorry for any confusion.