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You don't have a god in you, you are one.
-- The Force of Love audiotape, 1987
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News: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director
Posted on Monday, February 26 @ 07:40:36 PST by John |
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A Hollywood director will today unveil three coffins he claims were those of Jesus, his mother Mary and his 'wife' Mary Magdalene. James Cameron says he has proof that Jesus married Mary and that she bore him a son, Judah, who was buried alongside them.
The Lost Tomb of Jesus, made for the Discovery Channel, will be shown in the U.S. this week and later in Britain by Channel 4.
Today, Cameron is holding a press conference on what he describes as 'one of the greatest archaeological finds of all time'.
Crucially, he is not denying the resurrection - as there were no bones in the caskets.
But the Ł2million film still strikes at the foundation of Christianity in the same manner as the novel The Da Vinci Code, by Dan Brown, in claiming that Jesus married and had a family.
Click here to read the entire article...
Scholars Criticize New Jesus Documentary
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Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
 by Virgil on Monday, February 26 @ 10:37:15 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Professor Maier yesterday sent out this email to "friends and readers" regarding the new documentary that has parallels with his fictional scenario:
Paul L. Maier, Ph.D., Litt.D
Department of History
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI 49008
February 25, 2007
Dear Friends and Readers,
Thanks for the profusion of e-mails I’ve received over the last two days regarding the Talpiot tombs discovery in Jerusalem, a.k.a., “the Jesus Family Tomb” story. Some of you also suggested that “life seemed to be following art” so far as my A Skeleton in God’s Closet was concerned. Believe me, this is not the way I wanted my novel to hit the visual media!
Alas, this whole affair is just the latest in the long-running media attack on the historical Jesus, which – we thought – had culminated in that book of lies, The Da Vinci Code. But no: the caricatures of Christ continue.
Please, lose no sleep over the Talpiot “discoveries” for the following reasons, and here are the facts:.
1) Nothing is new here: scholars have known about the ossuaries ever since March of 1980. The general public learned when the BBC filmed a documentary on them in 1996. James Tabor’s book, The Jesus Dynasty, also made a big fuss over the Talpiot tombs more recently, and now James Cameron (The Titanic) and Simcha Jacobovici have climbed aboard the sensationalist bandwagon as well.
2) All the names – Yeshua, Joseph, Maria, Mariamene, Matia, Judah, and Jose -- are extremely frequent Jewish names for that time and place, and thus most scholars consider this merely coincidental, as they did from the start. One-quarter of Jewish women at that time, for example, were named Maria.
3) There is no reason whatever to equate “Mary Magdalene” with “Mariamene,”
as Jacobovici claims.
4) So what if her DNA is different from that of “Yeshua” ? That particular "Mariamme" (as it is usually spelled today) could indeed have been the wife of that particular “Yeshua.”
5) What in the world is the “Jesus Family” doing, having a burial plot in Jerusalem, of all places, the very city that crucified Jesus? Galilee was their home. In Galilee they could have had such a family plot, not Judea. Besides all of which, church tradition – and Eusebius – are unanimous in reporting that Mary died in Ephesus, where the apostle John, faithful to his commission from Jesus on the cross, had accompanied Mary.
6) If this were Jesus’ family burial, what is Matthew doing there – if indeed “Matia” is thus to be translated?
7) How come there is no tradition whatever – Christian, Jewish, or secular – that any part of the Holy Family was buried at Jerusalem?
8) Please note the extreme bias of the director and narrator, Simcha Jacobovici. The man is an Indiana-Jones-wannabe, who oversensationalizes anything he touches. You may have caught him on his TV special regarding The Exodus, in which the man “explained” just everything that still needed proving or explaining in the Exodus account in the Old Testament! It finally became ludicrous, and now he’s doing it again. – As for James Cameron, how do you follow The Titanic? Well, with an even more “titanic” story. He should have known better.
There are more arguments, to be sure, but I want to get this off pronto.
With warm regards,
Paul L. Maier
via: Between Two Worlds |
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- by Jhedges on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:03:47 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:32:08 PST
Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
 by PreteristAD70 on Monday, February 26 @ 20:22:14 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I have to ask: How on earth would DNA analysis prove ANYTHING??? Did James Cameron discover a bloody piece of the cross to compare to ossuary DNA?
There are so many things wrong with their assumptions, I can't help but chuckle.
--Mike |
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- by JL on Monday, February 26 @ 21:54:39 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 05:30:17 PST
I don't know what's worse.... (Score: 1)
 by KingNeb on Monday, February 26 @ 20:30:58 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I don't know what's worse..a guy claiming he might of found Jesus' tomb or Christians arguing, "see, no body was found...this proves Jesus rose from the dead." |
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- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 05:31:26 PST
- by flannery0 on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:05:28 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:31:32 PST
- by KingNeb on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:33:08 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 06:36:06 PST
- by KingNeb on Tuesday, February 27 @ 07:20:56 PST
- by Jhedges on Tuesday, February 27 @ 08:11:28 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 08:37:12 PST
Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
by tom-g on Monday, February 26 @ 21:59:20 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil,
Scientists ought to be in their glory over this story about finding our Lord's tomb.
I may be older than most who read this, but, when I was younger there was a very popular song called "The Purple People Eaters". and the saying went around that scientists had proven that there really was such a thing as purple people eaters.
When asked how scientists had proven this? The answer was: "You don't see any purple people do you?"
Tom |
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- by PreteristAD70 on Monday, February 26 @ 22:15:33 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 05:32:49 PST
- by thebigbus on Tuesday, February 27 @ 09:40:26 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 10:04:45 PST
Stop The Coffin (Score: 1)
by Terry on Tuesday, February 27 @ 07:39:13 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Here is a historical note with equal weight to Cameron's claim:
A hearse was traveling at a rapid speed across town and turned left, heading up a steep hill. It hit a hard bump and the back door flipped open and the casket slid out and down the hill and across the street. It hit the curb and flipped up through a drugstore window, landed on the counter and slid to the end and when it hit the wall, the lid flipped open and the guy inside sat up and said to the pharmacist "have you got anything to stop this coffin?"
I came across this historical evidence when my uncle reported it to me during my Junior High years. Quite a guy! |
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Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Tuesday, February 27 @ 09:51:25 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | This movie or whatever you call it will be on the "Discovery Channel". It's seems like the "Discovery Channel" finds only stuff to debunk Christianity (usually before Easter or Christmas). I wonder who determines what gets on the "Discovery Channel"?
Richard......... |
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- by Virgil on Tuesday, February 27 @ 10:06:31 PST
Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
by Sam on Wednesday, February 28 @ 00:10:10 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Silly empiricists....
sam |
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- by JL on Wednesday, February 28 @ 08:22:47 PST
- by Virgil on Wednesday, February 28 @ 09:50:54 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, February 28 @ 10:22:33 PST
- by Sam on Wednesday, February 28 @ 11:52:49 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, February 28 @ 12:31:07 PST
- by JL on Wednesday, February 28 @ 12:44:28 PST
- by Virgil on Wednesday, February 28 @ 13:21:00 PST
- by JL on Wednesday, February 28 @ 14:09:48 PST
- by Ed on Wednesday, February 28 @ 12:15:10 PST
Re: I've Found the Coffin of Jesus, Says Film Director (Score: 1)
by Sam on Wednesday, February 28 @ 13:31:37 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Ed,
First, I will deal with your excellent post (except for some parts), and then Jeff's. Hopefully, this should clear things up, at least where I am coming from. First, the article you quoted from (Skeptics Dictionary – SD): "Empiricism is a theory which holds that the origin of all knowledge is sense experience." Then, you reply that Jeff and Tim are not this. Granted. But, you missed something in the article: the second definition: "The term also refers to the method of observation and experiment used in the natural sciences." Note the term, "also." It is in this second definition that I apply it to Jeff and Tim, and the archeologists of Jesus' tomb. Archeology, Ed, is a science (empirical) that utilizes the second definition of SD. That's why I wrote, "silly empiricists." It still applies.
Now, Jeff wrote, quoting Clark, "Now to the third type of epistemology, which I will give the unpleasant name of dogmatism. To avoid the utter ignorance of skepticism, and to escape the insanity of irrationalism, one must seek a secure refuge in a third possibility. It could be called rationalism if the word were not confused with Hegelianism on the right or Deism on the left. It could equally well be called dogmatism unless the popular opprobrium thereby incurred is too much for it to bear. A more recent term is presuppositionalism. Take your choice. The name is relatively unimportant, unlike Hebrew names used to be. The name is relatively unimportant if the details are understood." Great quote, by the way. But the conclusions Jeff comes to is what is so amazing. He wrote, "Only the last of these fits Cameron who has no empirical evidence, and has come to his conclusions by assuming them. That is pure rational dogmatism." No, Jeff, it does not at all. Note the second definition, Jeff, in Ed's post from the SD. That's how ARCHEOLOGY proceeds. That's how scientific methodology proceeds. Jeff wrote that Cameron has "no empirical evidence." Hmmmm, me wonders what those bones with those names are in front of him, being OBSERVED and then REASONED from that these are the bone of Jesus BECAUSE (evidence) we also find MARY and JUDAH (coincidence? Maybe…but, that's the problem with induction).
Apparently, Jeff thinks that scientific methodology does not assume anything, for if it did, then it would "presuppositionalism." Interesting. You mean that scientific methodology REASONS from ASSUMPTIONS that are unproven? Congrats, Jeff. You will make a great Clarkian! In fact, if Jeff would actually take the time to thoroughly read Clark (and the book from which he took that quote), he would find that this is exactly the charge Clark makes of ALL systems, including scientism: one must START (presuppose) something that is not PROVEN (an AXIOM). If not, we would have the old problem our friend Aristotle brought concerning always having to prove the thing that you believe, then proving that, then proving that, then proving that, and so on, ad infinitum. Obviously, Aristotle concluded, we could never BEGIN anywhere. Hence, axiomatic reasoning. We all do it.
So, yes, archeologists that supposedly "prove" the existence of Jesus' bones do so from the second definition of the SD which Ed so graciously supplied for us, but they do so from presuppositions, which Jeff so wonderfully (and CORRECTLY) pointed out in typical Clarkian fashion. Bravo! The problem is, though, that ALL scientific reasoning, whether is be botony, physics, or archeology proceeds on this very definition given in the SD and is, therefore, EMPIRICAL.
Now, Ed, you wrote, "They merely claim that senses are a valid witness - one among many." Here's where you get into trouble. If senses are "valid witnesses" for ascertaining truth, how did Peter ascertain that Jesus was the son of God? Jesus tells him how he got that information: "my father which is in heaven revealed it to you." Hardly sensations. Others "looked" at Jesus, too – and spit on him. Apparently, they didn't "see" the s
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