The apostles actually saw Jesus ascend into a cloud and were told that he would return in like manner as he was seen going (Acts 1-9-11). They equate this description of this physical experience the apostles had with "poetic passages" in the Old Testament of such verbal images as God "riding" on a cloud or making clouds his "chariot." Similarly, the literal universal flood of Noah's day is made a parallel to a non-literal universal fire at "the Day of the Lord." Peter tells us that "both" the flood and the fire bring the world's destruction (2 Peter 3-5-7,10-13). Yet they understand this destruction to mean "the end of the Old Covenant age" by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. To carry forward God's purpose in the new order (new heavens and earth; Rev. 21-22) centered in the church and exclusion of Israel.
According to Christian preterist doctrine, which speaks of "cloud coming imagery" illustrated in the Old Testament, it was standard prophetic form to write of the Lord's coming in or on a cloud, or clouds to bring about the fall of a nation. Predicted by the prophets that included "sun and moon darkened, fire, stars falling, sky rolling up, heavens dissolving away, earth moving, shaking, etc." They hold that none of these acts of God were universe destroying or time ending events. They give an extensive list of scripture passages to back up their belief in this long and well established biblical precedent as being earthly national judgments of a "non-literal coming of the Lord in the clouds accompanied by a non-literal time ending catastrophe."
Yet not one prophet "used cosmic, catastrophic, collapsing universe language to announce the fall of nations" in the historical past. By bundling together many such references it creates the "impression" that a standard prophetic form exists where it does not. Sometimes prophets wrote of earthquakes, darkness, or cosmic affects that are seen as limited and temporal in scope. The prophets did not convey a final cosmic catastrophe in those cases. Predictive prophecy includes language that seems to spell the complete upheaval of the natural order. Language of a "collapsing universe" that the prophets speak of is a judgment that targets "the whole world and all nations," not some specific nation in the past. It is important to pay attention to the literary form whether or not we're reading "predictive prophecy" in a particular case makes all the difference. If there are common patterns of expression in prophetic passages, we look to find them in "prophetic passages" not somewhere else.
Taking a look at some of the "cloud coming" texts they use to support their doctrine: Looking to Isa. 19-1, here God is coming on a cloud to judge the nation of Egypt, but he is "riding" the cloud, and the cloud is a swift one. And Egypt is depicted as having a "heart that will melt" as the Lord "swiftly" dashes over her borders. We see in this text that the Lord does not come "in" the cloud to bring judgment, but rather "rides" on the cloud.
Psalms 18-9-12, again we see here that God does not come in or on a cloud in the poem, but he is riding on a "cherub" and on the "wings of the wind." The clouds that are mentioned are thick and dark in order to "conceal" him and not "reveal" him. This text they use contrasts sharply with the Lord's ascension in the clouds in Acts chapter one. In reading Psalm 68-4, we see that God is not coming in judgment against nations, rather it is a statement "of praises" with no reference to enemies, battles or judgments. "The Lord rides on the clouds" is a reference to his might and sovereignty over nature.
Psalms 104-3-4 announces God's greatness over the world he created. He "makes the clouds his chariot," and the Lord "walks" rather than "rides" as in Psalm 18 "on the wings of the wind." The Lord coming or appearing in order "to judge" is not in view in this text.
Another text they use is Dan. 7-13, of their cloud coming theory. But the coming here does not lead to "the judgment and fall of a nation" (Jerusalem's fall in 70 A.D.). This is the Old Testament reference to the "Son of man" title that Jesus used of himself over and over again. It is the reference to "the Son of man coming with the clouds" of Jesus' pronouncement before Caiaphas. This is also the parallel passage to Luke's description of Jesus' ascension and the statement of the angel's promise that he would return "in like manner." This verse reads, "I was watching in the night visions and behold, one like the Son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him." Here, he is not coming to destroy, he is coming into the presence of God with all nations assembled.
The next verse completes the vision and explains what his coming is all about. "Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom that all peoples, nations and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed." Many Bible scholars have indicated that this scriptural passage would have come to the minds of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin present when Jesus made this statement that "from this point on, they would see him at the right hand of God and coming in the clouds." As it would come to mind when the apostles watched the Lord ascend into a cloud and heard the angels announce that he would come back in the same way. We see Dan. 7-13 does not indicate "a cloud coming judgment" by Jesus on Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Rather the text shows the inauguration of an eternal Messiah Kingdom in the presence of the Ancient of Days.
Another text they use is Ezek. 38-16, that states that God would come up against Israel "as a cloud to cover the land." Notice that they do not seem to see the enormous linguistic difference between coming "in" a cloud and coming "as" a cloud. Also Ezek. 38-16 states that "Gog" not "God" is the cloud-like invader of Israel. So a study of cloud imagery in these texts of the Old Testament Christian preterists use indicate that "clouds" have a "variety of meanings in scripture", and that there is "no standard structure" to be found that they hold to.
They also generally believe, like the "cloud comings", that the prophets consistently wrote of the fall of specific nations as if the world was coming to an end; that is the language of a "collapsing universe" seen in scripture. In reality however, the prophets never predicted that the "universe would collapse" in association with the fall of nations in the past. In a few places they did speak of less activity then cosmic, atmospheric and geological activity when writing about God's judgment on specific nations. These predictions at times can be seen as obviously figurative. But they give no valid evidence that it was "standard prophetic practice" to state "end of the nation predictions in end of the world language." The prophets used that kind of talk for God's predicted judgment "on the whole world."
Isaiah 13 includes language that can be taken to mean the complete upheaval of the natural order. That God will "make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place" (13-13). However, the immediate context indicates that God is punishing "the world" (13-11). Isaiah here is not speaking of just the fall of a specific nation, as an example "Jerusalem" (70 A.D.) in the past. We see Isaiah 24 also concerns a universal judgment "on the earth and among the nations" (24-13). "The kings of the earth below" (24-21) are being punished by the Lord. The severe cosmic activity is more thoroughly documented in Isa. 24-18-21, that the prophet is speaking of "a universal judgment" (24-1,3,4,6,13,17,21).
Isaiah 34 states, "All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll, all the starry host will fall like withered leaves, etc." (34-4). This is not talking about Edom introduced in the next verse. We see the passage begins as a call for judgment "on the earth---the world--all nations" (34-1-2). Zephaniah 1 is clearly a prediction of the end of the world and of all natural life (1-2,3,15,18).
Christian preterists argue that by the 1st century the prophets used an established systematic form in such expressions as clouds, falling stars and etc., were so entrenched then, that when Christians of that time used those expressions clouds, stars falling, end of age, everyone knew what they meant. Another national judgment was in view, in this case, the destruction of Jerusalem itself. According to them this was the preferred way of speaking about Jerusalem's fate in letters to churches and sermons preached in the first two-thirds of the 1st century. Hardly anyone would come out and say "Jerusalem is going to fall as a result of God's judgment." Rather they preferred to use the "standard encoded method" of expressing themselves.

Does scripture teach a Bodily Resurrection of the dead?
We read in John 5-18-19,21-22; "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (Verses 21-22), For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but had committeth all judgment unto the Son;---." Jesus mentions here two works that he performs; "the raising and quickening of the dead," and "judgement." In John 5-24-26 Jesus discusses the first work, "the resurrection of life, and the second work, "a resurrection of judgement" in John 5-27-30.
The work of raising the dead and quickening them is an on-going work that is described in John 5-24-25 and the future work is described in verses 28-29. We read in verses 24-25, "Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life. Verily, verily I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live." The quickening and raising of the dead is seen as a present activity by the phrase "and now is." Where the future activity is seen by the phrase "the hour is coming" in the same verse. Before people hear and believe, they are in a state of condemnation and death (verses 24-25). The Greek word for "death" in verse 24 is "thanatos." This word means a death of the body in which the soul and body are separated implying the idea of hell. The Greek word translated "dead" in verse 25 is "nekros." In this verse Jesus is speaking of those who are spiritually dead. "Nekros" is used in scripture by Jesus to refer to both physical death and spiritual death.
To give a few examples, Matt. 8-22, "But Jesus said unto him, follow me; let the dead (nekros) bury their dead "(nekros). Ephe. 2-1,5-6, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead (nekros) in trespasses and sins. (Verses 5-6), Even when we were dead (nekros) in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ---And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." We see in these passages that "nekros" refers to both those who are "physically dead" and those who are still physically alive but "spiritually dead." So we see that verse 25, "those who hear and live" are those who are dead "spiritually." They are in a state of death and condemnation (verse 24).
We read in John 6-39-40,44,54, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all he hath given me I shall lose nothing, but shall raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (Verse 44), No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day. (Verse 54), Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." As we see from these passages, the promise is clear, that those who have heard and believed in him and in the one who sent him, will be raised up by Jesus "at the last day." This promise is in regard to a "bodily resurrection" as we shall see in John 5-28-30, but first we go to verses 26-27.
"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man." These verses essentially repeat verses 21-22 but serve as a transition between the spiritual resurrection in verses 24-25 and the bodily resurrection seen in verses 28-29. Verse 26 speaks of those who have believed which will lead to a bodily resurrection (verse 29). Verse 27 speaks of the execution of judgement of those who rejected Christ's word will one day face. The bodily resurrection of damnation spoken of in verse 29. It is also seen in other passages such as: John 12-48, "He that rejecteth me, and recieveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him; the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him at the last day." John 3-18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 5-28-29, "Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear the sound of his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
This resurrection is a "different one" than what is spoken of in verses 24-25. First, note the difference in the time statements. Verse 25 reads, "---the hour is coming, and now is---." But verse 28 reads, "---for the hour is coming---." Showing this resurrection had yet to come at an unspecified time in the future. The resurrection (spiritual resurrection) in verse 25 however was going on at that time and would continue in the future, in what is called the church age. Verse 28 reads, "---all that are in the graves shall hear his voice---." The normal understanding of this phrase means that "all corpses in their graves will hear Jesus' voice and will come out." It is obvious here that the word "grave" refers to a physical object in which corpses are placed, rather than to the place where the spirits of the dead dwell.
The Greek word for "graves" in verse 28 is "mneimois" which is a plural of "mneimon." Mneimon is used 42 times in the New Testament. It is translated 29 times as "sepulcher", 6 times as "grave," and 5 times as "tomb", all in the literal sense of the word. That is a hole in the ground where you put a dead body, and the only way this word is used in the New Testament. The Greek word for the place where the spirits of the dead dwell is "hades." The following two verses are the only other places in the New Testament where the exact Greek phrase "en tois mneimois" found in verse 28 is used. Mark 5-3, "Who had his dwelling among the tombs,* and no man could bind him, no, not with chains;--." (Verse 5), And always night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs,* crying, and cutting himself with stones." In each of these verses we see "en tois mneimois" refers to literal physical tombs. So we can see without any doubt that Jesus in John 5-28 is saying that all of the corpses in their graves will hear his voice and come forth, just as Lazarus heard him and came out of his grave literally in John chapter 11. Jesus is speaking of a bodily resurrection and not a spiritual resurrection.
Another difference that can be seen between the spiritual resurrection described in verses 24-25 and the physical one in verse 28 is "who" is being resurrected. The resurrection described in verses 24-25 applies only to "he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me." This is how "the dead shall hear--and--they that hear shall live." This is the believer's spiritual resurrection. In verse 28 however, we read "all" that "are in their graves" will hear his voice and come forth. This clearly is a physical resurrection. It cannot refer to the spiritual resurrection because it includes "both" believers "and" non-believers. The word "all" means "all without exception." The clear and plain sense of this verse is that "every corpse" will rise and face judgement.
Regarding the universal resurrection, they are spoken of in several passages as well. Rev. 20-13, "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works." Matt. 25-34, "Then shall the king say unto them on his right hand, Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;---." Matt. 25-41, "Then shall he say unto them on his left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels;---."
The only spiritual resurrection that the Bible records is that which happens when a person is "born again." Jesus described it as both a present and future resurrection in John 5-24-25. This has been happening for 2000 years and still happening today. The bodily resurrection of "all" is yet to come, as John 5-28 reads: "All that are in the graves shall hear the sound of his voice and shall come forth." The Greek word Mneimois translated "graves" here is only used in the New Testament to refer to a place where a corpse is lain. And the word never refers to the place where the spirits of the dead dwell. Jesus is not referring to a spiritual resurrection because the resurrection involves "all persons," and not believers only. This occurs with Jesus' coming at the end of the "Christian age," being "the end of the ages," as 1 Cor. 10-11 reveals to us. "Now all these things happened unto them for examples; and they are written for our* admonition, upon whom (the church) the end of the ages are come" (have begun).
We read in 1 Cor. 15-23, "But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." Paul uses the term "fruits" here figuratively so that his audience could understand in explaining the truth concerning the resurrection of the dead in the prior verses. "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits* of them that slept" (here to mean have literally died; verse 20). In this verse Paul is speaking not only of a spiritual death, but a literal physical death that Christ came to restore (verse 22). The spiritual "and" physical resurrection is seen in verse 23. "Christ the firstfruits" who came and died and was "physically resurrected" in order to bring us first a spiritual resurrection, then "at the last day" the bodily resurrection from the grave, as can be seen in the following words. "--afterward* (after their spiritual resurrection) they that are * Christ's---." Who are they that are Christ's? All those who had believed in him and in whom sent him, receiving at that time a spiritual resurrection. Then his coming would bring about their "bodily resurrection" as can be seen in reading the following words. "Afterwards (after their spiritual resurrection) they that are Christ's (will be resurrected literally) "AT HIS COMING." Then we read what occurs next in 1 Cor. 15-24-25. "THEN cometh the end (the end of the church age-end of the ages), when he shall have delivered up the kingdom* (the church kingdom) to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down "all" rule and "all" authority and power. For he must reign ( in heaven, see Rev. 20-4-6), till he hath put "all" enemies under his feet (see Rev. 20-7-11). The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (see Rev. 20-12-15).
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep (dead). For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead (the literal dead) in Christ shall rise first. Then we (in Christ) which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (see Rev. chap. 21-22). Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (1 Thess. 4-15-18).
In our continuing search for God's Truth;
Twospirits