 |
 |
|
Here's how you can tell if it's a dream from God or if it's just a dream: If you awake right after that, it's a dream from God, because the Bible says whenever God spoke to His saints through dreams they awakened. They did not stay asleep, they woke up. -- Benny Hinn, This is Your Day, Trinity Broadcasting Network, March 19, 1997 |
|
 |  |
Exclusive: Why I Now Embrace Old Earth Creationism and a Regional Flood
Posted on Wednesday, February 14 @ 11:53:34 PST by Kurt Simmons |
|
by Kurt Simmons I Now Believe in Old Earth Creationism Because I have Decided the Creation Account of Genesis is not Worthy of Credit and Have Decided to Throw in with the Claims of Modern Science
Let us be candid: old earth creationism and the “gap” theory have little to do with the Bible, except, perhaps, to deface it. These theories are nothing but attempts to reconcile the Bible to the claims of modern science. It is disingenuous to pretend that Moses intended readers to see a “gap” in the creation account or that the Bible teaches the earth is millions or billions of years old. The obvious intent of the Holy Ghost, who is the real author of the Bible, was to teach the creation of the cosmos in the space of six twenty-four hours days (evenings and mornings) and the origin of the human race by the special creation of Adam and Eve. If we have decided the Bible account of creation is not worthy of credit, why pretend our decision to throw in with modern science is justified by the Bible? Let us rather boldly announce our independence; let us openly reject the Bible and unabashedly proclaim for modern science! We are cowards to do any less. If the weak and timorous feel better hiding behind fallacious theories of a “gap” in the creation account, perhaps we who are strong can smile. But let us never pretend that these theories are to be taken seriously or are anything more than balm to sooth the conscience of those who are afraid to openly pronounce against God’s word.
I Now Believe in the Regional Flood Theory Because I No Longer Care About Interpreting the Bible according to the Intent of Its Author.
I wish there were some scientific evidence to reject the Genesis account of a universal flood, but there is none. I wish I could believe in a regional flood based upon the arguments of those advancing the notion, but I find there is no substance to their position. Every claim, every argument, every justification advanced is refuted by the hard facts and sound principles of hermeneutics. So, unfortunately, I find I must base my rejection of God’s word upon something much more flimsy and subjective.
Instead, I reject the Biblical account of the flood because I have simply chosen to believe it is a myth. It doesn’t matter that Plato and all the ancients believed in a universal flood, that the church fathers affirmed the flood was universal, or that every culture in the world affirms the basic fact of a universal flood. I simply choose not to believe it because it no longer suits me and I find belief in the verbally inspired word of God uncomfortable; I chaff under its load.
And why shouldn’t I? If I can reject the creation account as a mere fiction, why should I put confidence in any part of the Bible? Universal flood, walking upon the water, giving sight to the blind, raising the dead; Posh! It is all the same. The opiate of the people, someone said. I choose to follow Thomas Jefferson’s example and simply redact those portions of the Bible that I am disposed to disbelieve. Besides, being hermeneutically bound to the intent of the author (which all reasonable people admit was to set forth a universal flood) gets in the way and is most inconvenient. It is much more to my purpose to apply a wooden hermeneutic that makes every occurrence of a word or phrase mean the same thing, regardless of the author’s intent or the fact that it occurs one time in highly charged book of prophecy and in another in a book of simple prose or historical narrative. Such distinctions are irksome and a burden to me. Therefore, tut, tut! Away with the author’s intent in composing the flood account! Since it is not God’s word and is merely the subjective impressions of unenlightened men whose record is unworthy of credit, I feel no scruple in rewriting the Bible as it suits me best.
Some urge that I not be so bold or outspoken about my rejection of God’s word; they say I should conceal my skepticism by putting forward new interpretations based upon dubious hermeneutics; that I should justify my opinions by appeal to novel translations of Hebrew words; they say I should argue forcefully for a regional flood by making the meaning of Greek words occurring in Revelation a justification for the novel translation of Hebrew words in Genesis; they urge me to employ these and similar artifices to make it more palatable to others. A little creative hermeneutics can rewrite the Bible completely, they say, and I will gain many adherents.
But I reject all such approaches as low and unworthy the true man of modern science and enlightenment. Since I reject the word of God, I should proclaim against it openly. Therefore, let no one bother me with “thus saith the Lord.” This is a brave new world. We are our only masters! Let us throw off the shackles that have so long bound us! From now on the Bible is a tool to use as we please; to bend to our will; to justify what we want; and ignore as we will. With the Bible no longer to bind us, there is no end to what we may do, no limit where we may go! Faith has suddenly become so comfortable and so much more convenient. I marvel I resisted for so long!
But if not, and the Bible really is the verbally inspired and inerrant word of God, if the intent of the author must govern our interpretation, then…well, don’t really want to go there, after all, do we? That would spoil all our fun.
------
Kurt Simmons is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.
View Kurt Simmons archives
Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.
|
| |
 |
|
Average Score: 1.26 Votes: 30
|
|
 |
^^Go to Top - E-mail to Friend - Print - View PDF - Subscribe - Comments RSS
Re: Why I Now Embrace Old Earth Creationism and a Regional Flood (Score: 1)
by Malachi on Wednesday, February 14 @ 14:50:34 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | | Not to be taken seriously, of course. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Ed on Wednesday, February 14 @ 16:42:29 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 04:27:26 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 05:37:35 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 05:52:47 PST
- by mazuur on Thursday, February 15 @ 06:17:41 PST
- by Theolog on Thursday, February 22 @ 08:19:24 PST
- by MiddleKnowledge on Thursday, February 22 @ 08:47:45 PST
- by Theolog on Saturday, February 24 @ 21:37:23 PST
- by Ransom on Sunday, February 25 @ 12:26:03 PST
- by Theolog on Wednesday, April 18 @ 08:59:48 PDT
Re: Why I Now Embrace Old Earth Creationism and a Regional Flood (Score: 1)
by Starlight on Wednesday, February 14 @ 15:59:38 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Of course
You know Kurt you are partially correct in your observations, some people give up on the word because they can’t make heads or tails of it because they have been commanded to read it in the strictly literalistic viewpoint. Some of these people become Atheist, agnostics or liberals.
Then there are those who never give up and find the truth because they keep on knocking on the door and it is opened up and they can then see inside and they go and tell their brothers what they have seen then it spreads, slowly at first then hundreds and then thousands and then there is a harvest of righteousness due to those who would not turn loose of the truth. Then there were those who would not listen and the owner said who are you and where are your clothes? And they will stand there speechless before the master.
Matt 7:7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Matt 25: 29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away.
And He said “The end of it shall be with a flood,”
Blessings
Norm
|
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
Re: Sarcasm (Score: 1)
by watton (jdwatton at yahoo com) on Wednesday, February 14 @ 16:01:02 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | | I believe Jesus used sarcasm on occasion, but no verses come to mind. I have observed harm and misunderstanding come from sarcasm, especially in communication with children and non-native English speakers. Still it is pervasive and I for one have made a half-hearted resolution to avoid using it. The purpose of this comment is really to let people know that this article is sarcasm. Or is it? |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Malachi on Wednesday, February 14 @ 17:40:07 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, February 14 @ 23:23:20 PST
- by PreteristAD70 on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:56:55 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 09:15:10 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:18:54 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 12:53:12 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 13:27:34 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 14:43:58 PST
- by Paige on Friday, February 16 @ 10:54:43 PST
- by flannery0 on Friday, February 16 @ 11:50:31 PST
- by Paige on Friday, February 16 @ 12:01:44 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 12:32:56 PST
- by davo on Thursday, February 15 @ 19:38:57 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 20:35:19 PST
- by davo on Thursday, February 15 @ 21:03:41 PST
- by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 20:01:26 PST
- by PreteristAD70 on Thursday, February 15 @ 21:28:54 PST
- by flannery0 on Friday, February 16 @ 03:25:17 PST
- by tom-g on Friday, February 16 @ 08:03:50 PST
- by flannery0 on Friday, February 16 @ 08:09:57 PST
- by flannery0 on Friday, February 16 @ 08:18:05 PST
- by valensname on Friday, February 16 @ 11:14:03 PST
- by MiddleKnowledge on Friday, February 16 @ 13:54:25 PST
- by Starlight on Friday, February 16 @ 09:23:12 PST
- by valensname on Friday, February 16 @ 19:53:16 PST
- by Starlight on Friday, February 16 @ 21:32:22 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 07:34:12 PST
- by Starlight on Saturday, February 17 @ 12:19:20 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 12:51:14 PST
- by Starlight on Saturday, February 17 @ 13:29:39 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 14:06:20 PST
- by Starlight on Saturday, February 17 @ 15:34:15 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 16:11:46 PST
- by Starlight on Friday, February 16 @ 10:52:03 PST
- by Starlight on Friday, February 16 @ 12:05:41 PST
- by Starlight on Friday, February 16 @ 13:20:49 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 04:58:07 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 04:58:07 PST
Will They Accept the Gauntlet? (Score: 1)
by valensname on Wednesday, February 14 @ 18:55:57 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Kurt,
Thank you for your article.
I wish the billion year old Earth preterists would show us how their view is taught in Scripture besides what JL has offered regarding Genesis 2:4 and his views on evening/morning found elsewhere in Scripture and then interject it back into the Genesis 1 text without ever first dealing with the original text. They suggest that they are going to deal with the text in the future book. Time will tell. Although the literal Hebrew can be translated with the English word "generations" where are the translations to support the view JL exposes? As I've said before to suggest that the text is saying the heavens and Earth are billions of years old by the word generations then to me that says the text is saying the heavens and Earth have given birth to other heavens and earth's with succeeding generations. Is that not how the context uses it in Genesis 5:1 and 10:1? But who takes that view? Even Norm's NIV uses the word "account" there and the footnotes in the NIV Archaeological agrees. At the best one could infer using JL's logic that the Bible gives hints at a billion year old Heavens and Earth but to say that the Bible directly teaches a billion year old Earth is just saying something Scripture does not say. Preterists have been known for their exegetical works, Max for example. But where is it from the the billion year old Earth and regional flood view preterists? As much as they respond to posts here on PP why can't they offer more exegetical work to support their view instead of continuing to say it will be out later? If their view is true why can't they offer an explanation?
I know there are those who will say they have offered exegetical work but specifically they have not in terms of Genesis 2:4. For example the NIV, LITV, Young's, and NKJV all do not support JL's view of the passage.
Glenn |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Starlight on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:07:22 PST
- by valensname on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:32:03 PST
- by Ed on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:44:42 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 09:46:18 PST
- by Starlight on Wednesday, February 14 @ 23:29:46 PST
- by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 11:00:09 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 11:41:40 PST
- by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 20:03:26 PST
Soul Cleansing (Confession Time) (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:37:24 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | I now believe a bunch of illiterate Arabs, most of whom are still alive flew 4 almost empty airplanes into three buildings toppling two steel skyscrapers and one that was not hit on Sept 11.
I now believe a 150 foot wide airplane squeezed into a 30 foot hole in the Pentagon.
I now believe that an entire airplane dissolved into nothing in Shanksville.
I now believe that the 500 people who heard explosions before the collapse of towers one and two were just dreaming.
I now believe that asbestos augementation on the twin towers costing as much as the actual buildings themselves would have gone ahead in 2002.
I feel better now ... so much better now. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Ed on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:49:24 PST
- by EWMI on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:54:00 PST
- by EWMI on Wednesday, February 14 @ 21:35:59 PST
- by PreteristAD70 on Thursday, February 15 @ 06:21:46 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:49:40 PST
- by EWMI on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:08:49 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:30:21 PST
- by EWMI on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:51:08 PST
- by EWMI on Thursday, February 15 @ 11:05:22 PST
- by TheIdealNate on Saturday, February 17 @ 03:38:30 PST
- by EWMI on Saturday, February 17 @ 23:16:55 PST
- by EWMI on Thursday, February 15 @ 09:34:40 PST
Cup (Score: 1)
by Jhedges on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:47:47 PST (User Info | Send a Message) |
I couldn't agree more Kurt. I mean the earth being a billion years old , what heresy!
Next these "lunatics" might say things like, Christ has returned, or the church has being missing the big picture for the lat 2k years!
hell, they Resurrection for the believer is not physical or even there isn't a Resurrection for the believer ! Its just covenental!
Heck one might even create a "bi-millennial" doctrine !!!
What will happen next ??
|
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Jhedges on Wednesday, February 14 @ 20:49:27 PST
- by Paige on Wednesday, February 14 @ 22:32:11 PST
- by Malachi on Thursday, February 15 @ 06:56:41 PST
- by Jhedges on Thursday, February 15 @ 07:04:38 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 09:30:00 PST
- by Virgil on Thursday, February 15 @ 07:17:10 PST
- by Malachi on Thursday, February 15 @ 07:49:50 PST
- by Virgil on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:43:00 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:55:28 PST
- by Virgil on Thursday, February 15 @ 15:38:51 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 16:13:23 PST
- by Virgil on Thursday, February 15 @ 16:23:57 PST
- by MiddleKnowledge on Thursday, February 15 @ 16:38:56 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 07:57:57 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:14:40 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:38:14 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:51:51 PST
- by davo on Thursday, February 15 @ 21:54:32 PST
Re: Why I Now Embrace Old Earth Creationism and a Regional Flood (Score: 1)
by tom-g on Thursday, February 15 @ 06:56:16 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Dear Kurt,
I believe that rhetoric in all of its artistic methods is an excellent tool to be used in argumentation (the form of human discourse intended to persuade) for the edification of its intended audience.
If the comments both pro and con on this article could be made for this purpose, I for one, would very much like to see it proceed. This type of interactive education can be much more enlightening than a lecture or book where the author presents his position and then creates his own rhetorical straw men to prove that his position is correct.
In my many years of witnessing to the resurrection of our Lord from the dead, I have found this one thing to be a primary truth, you can not convince anyone of the truth of your premise by using for your source, an authority which your audience does not acknowledge and accept. Simply stated, you can not progress beyond the point at which you digress.
Specifically, it is incumbent upon the person posing the question, whether it be in the form of the affirmation or the denial of a thing, to use only that authority for his proof a source his audience will agree to affirm the information contained are true statements.
In this article Kurt is proceeding from the fundamental premise of sola scriptura as his authority, those in disagreement do not limit their objections only to that source to overcome his premise. Obviously no agreement can be reached since they are not arguing to the same question in the same way.
I, for one, think this question is vitally important and would like to see it proceed with its best spokesmen making their case. But only if they are arguing to the same question in the same way, agreeing to rely upon a commonly accepted source as the authority to resolve differences. It is therefore incumbent upon those who deny the truth of his premise to do so from the authority upon which his premise is formed, sola scriptura.
Tom
|
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 07:00:49 PST
- by Malachi on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:05:12 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 08:44:58 PST
- by tom-g on Friday, February 16 @ 00:04:19 PST
- by Ed on Friday, February 16 @ 05:08:36 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:30:52 PST
- by Sam on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:40:59 PST
- by flannery0 on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:50:00 PST
- by Malachi on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:44:55 PST
Ed's comments (Score: 1)
by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 10:54:03 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Ed,
We could all wait for the book to come out but almost every time I read a posting, Tim, Norm, or JL are again on their band wagon about their views regarding the age of the Earth and the Genesis flood. If they stay quiet until the book comes out, I'd be happy to.
Glenn |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 11:14:53 PST
- by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 14:31:18 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 14:50:02 PST
- by Starlight on Thursday, February 15 @ 15:02:00 PST
- by Ed on Thursday, February 15 @ 14:49:15 PST
- by valensname on Thursday, February 15 @ 19:38:19 PST
- by Ed on Friday, February 16 @ 05:13:21 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 07:36:50 PST
- by Ed on Saturday, February 17 @ 09:41:05 PST
- by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 09:53:57 PST
Old Earth Creationism and a Regional Flood Hermeneutics Book (Score: 1)
by valensname on Saturday, February 17 @ 10:28:45 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | I hope the "comprehensive" upcoming book will explain the hermeneutics employed to come up with the "biblical" view of billion year old Earth and regional Genesis flood.
I want to know how to get the "wisdom and learning" to see how the Genesis text weaves in and out of "Poetic, Symbolic, Apocalyptic and Narrative" literature.
Hopefully it will explain
In the beginning - is this time narrative language poetic, symbolic, apocalyptic or something else like ignore it.
God - is He a real entity of is this poetic, symbolic, apocalyptic or something else.
created - is this a symbolic act or even an act at all. Was what was created in the past tense of future tense like prophecy is? Oh is it in poetic, narrative, symbolic, apocalyptic or something else.
the heavens and earth - is this material creation, a world of a group of people, narrative, symbolic, poetic, apocalyptic or something else.
Please I do hope the "comprehensive" book will explain how one gets the "wisdom and learning" to understand which is what and when it is.
And I thought dividing or not dividing Matthew 24 was hard enough. Now to be a preterist I have to understand how to divide multiple times to understand just the first three chapters of the Bible. Maybe if I live for a day, no that would be a thousand years, then maybe I can understand this preterist hermeneutic.
I think I'm done and will seek biblical discussions elsewhere.
Glenn |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
From Feb. 23, 2007 (Score: 1)
by JL (j.l.preterist@gmail.com) on Monday, March 12 @ 13:30:21 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Sam,
I have tested young-earth creationism against Scripture and found it wanting. You've done no such testing of any creation view.
I've been told that there is a poetic stop character after each of the six occurrences of "day" in question. Why does that not imply some sort of poetic symbolism?
Gen. 2:3 shows the start of the seventh day but no end. Hebrews claims that day had not ended at the time it was written. How does a non-literal day follow a sequence of literal days? Also please comment on this in light of the Exodus sabbath argument some have passed around here.
Gen. 2:4 claims that the six days are one day. Please explain how a six literal days equals a one literal day?
Gen. 2:4 also claims that the six days were some unspecified number of generations. Please explain how literal days can be compared to multiple generations?
Gen. 2:5-7 claims that there were no plants "on the earth" when man was created. Please explain how an event that occurred on day 6 occurred before an event on day 3?
Trees and plants were planted and grew. Trees take years to grow. Where did this time come from?
The animals were then created (Genesis 1 said they were created before the man) and brought to the man to name. The man observed them carefully and named them. For example, the lion was named "violence" (Strong's number 738) and the eagle, "lacerate" (#5404). Nature before the Fall was much like it was after the Fall and as it is today in the new creation. Naming the animals required a lot of time and care from Adam.
After all the animals were named, Adam was put to sleep and given his famous rib-ectomy. God then went away and left Adam to his work. Sometime later, God brought back the woman he had fashioned. Adam said, "Finally, ..." and named her.
The first account has several features that imply non-literal days.
The second account has a different order from the first. It has a lot of details that imply several years of time.
I had surgery this morning and am under a Vicodin haze, so I'm having trouble remembering all of the issues in Gen. 1 & 2. When my head clears up, I'll add a few more and move on to Gen. 3.
JL
Addendum Mar. 12, 2007 Since Sam (as well as the rest of you) never bothered to address this list, I didn't bother to add to it. If you young earthers won't address Scripture, there is no point in me wasting my time. I'll just keep posting this list until someone responds. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
|
|