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"A space alien captured at a UFO landing site in eastern Missouri cracked under interrogation by the CIA and admitted that an extraterrestrial army will attack Earth on November 27 with the express purpose of stripping our planet of every natural resource they can find a use for -- and making slaves of every man, woman and child in the world!"
-- The Sacerdotal Knights of National Security
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News: Old Church Model 'Killing the West'
Posted on Friday, February 09 @ 07:42:24 PST by John |
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Culture has rejected traditional institutions so the church should change, not complain about it, according to a prominent theologian and futurist. Leonard Sweet, considered one of the church's most provocative thinkers, said the old model of church is "killing the West," at a conference at Baylor University's George W. Truett Theological Seminary, according to the Associated Baptist Press.
In the midst of an ever-changing culture, and more specifically, postmodernism, the church must become missional, relational and incarnational rather than remain attractional, propositional and colonial, he said.
The "Achilles' heel" of the church is the practice of attractional Christianity. "It's all 'come and see' and not 'go and be,'" Sweet explained in an earlier interview with Relevant magazine.
While churches try to figure out how to draw more people to the church, Sweet said it's not about getting people to come to church. "It should be about coming to Christ."
And during his seminary time, preaching was about making the Scriptures come alive, said Sweet. Now, Christians must come alive to the Scriptures.
Getting pastors in tune with the shift in culture, Sweet pointed out the first fundamental postmodernist who dates back to more than 2,000 years ago - Pontius Pilate. He asked Jesus, "What is truth?"
"Truth is Jesus. This is the uniqueness of Christianity in all of the religions of the world," Sweet told pastors and lay people at the three-day conference on Monday, according to ABP. "Every other religion defines truth in propositional terms."
While all other spiritual leaders told followers to find the way to enlightenment, Jesus said, "I am the way," Sweet pointed out. "Truth is relationship."
Sweet has come to terms with the postmodern generation's expectations of change, and not of the stability that he had growing up. And if the church stops changing, it dies, he said in the interview with Relevant.
"We do need classics ... but you don't stay there. I think the church has got to embrace impermanence."
The church, Sweet said, must change from the inside out.
The 5th Annual Conference for Pastors and Laymen at Truett Theological Seminary teaches participants about how to meet the challenges of ministry. The conference concludes Wednesday.
From: http://www.christianpost.com
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Re: Old Church Model 'Killing the West' (Score: 1)
 by Flakinde on Friday, February 09 @ 08:53:54 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | "Sweet pointed out the first fundamental postmodernist who dates back to more than 2,000 years ago - Pontius Pilate. He asked Jesus, "What is truth?" "
. . . But then he walked away, and then came back in to scourge Him . . . Hmmmmmmm . . . |
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Re: Old Church Model 'Killing the West' (Score: 1)
 by Ed on Friday, February 09 @ 09:41:21 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I can agree with Sweet to a point. Certainly the unique brand of Christianity practiced by American Christians, which include an overemphasis on individuality, dress, Israel, etc. needs to change. Fundamentalism is dangerous, not in the same way Islam is, but in the spiritual well-being of a people.
However, historic faith that transcends culture is what is needed. The problem with some postmoderns is that, while they emphasize this change, what they are really calling for is not a return to that historic faith, but change to the emerging culture of our society.
That will affect how we "do church," for sure. While Emergent is asking a lot of the correct questions, I wonder if some of their proposed answers are just more of the same old culturally-relevant OR, worse yet, culturally-opposed proposals that have hurt the American Church for years.
We must never try to make the gospel relevant culturally. We must also never advocate a fleeing of culture. We, as Christians, must AFFECT culture. That is where the call for the Church to "Change or Die" needs to be focused. Folks like Spong want us to be culturally relevant. Folks like Falwell want us to be culturally separate (or denying). We need to be historic and affective in our Incarnation of Christ in and to the world.
BE the hands, feet, and FACE of Jesus to the world. That's the answer to true relevancy. This alone would change our culture for the better.
ed
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- by Paige on Friday, February 09 @ 10:05:37 PST
- by Virgil on Friday, February 09 @ 10:12:25 PST
- by Paige on Friday, February 09 @ 10:25:45 PST
- by Ed on Friday, February 09 @ 11:12:41 PST
- by plymouthrock on Friday, February 09 @ 15:24:03 PST
- by Ed on Friday, February 09 @ 16:31:49 PST
- by Virgil on Friday, February 09 @ 18:43:31 PST
- by plymouthrock on Saturday, February 10 @ 05:35:47 PST
- by Ed on Saturday, February 10 @ 07:11:03 PST
- by plymouthrock on Saturday, February 10 @ 12:19:16 PST
Christian Disunity Killed the West (Score: 1)
 by Parker on Friday, February 09 @ 18:39:00 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | First protestants schismed themselves into near oblivion over doctrinal differences (denominationalism). Now they will finish themselves off with infighting over nebulous "models" (attractional vs. missional etc.). The inability of Christians to have any form of unity is the end of protestant Christianity. From an organizational perspective, all of life requires unity to survive. Christianity surrendered its life-giving principle of unity with Luther and has continued to disintegrate ever since. It appears that, with the onset of postmodernism, protestants will no longer attempt to unite over doctrines but will instead split over endless wrangling about "models."
Unification is the only hope for Christianity and the West. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
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- by Virgil on Friday, February 09 @ 18:47:37 PST
- by Parker on Friday, February 09 @ 20:10:12 PST
- by Virgil on Friday, February 09 @ 20:20:14 PST
- by Parker on Friday, February 09 @ 20:53:35 PST
- by Ed on Sunday, February 11 @ 13:40:49 PST
Re: Old Church Model 'Killing the West' (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Saturday, February 10 @ 04:55:29 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Mat 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
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To me”all” institutional churches are like boxes. Everything you need to believe, etc. is in the box. If you step out of the box (e.g. Full Preterism”) you are no longer welcome. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. So maybe like others you start a new box. Perhaps we need to stop starting new boxes and take to heart Christ words (above) and ask how am I fulfilling Christ words of being “salt” and “light”.
Richard Wittemann
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- by Virgil on Saturday, February 10 @ 09:34:18 PST
- by Ed on Saturday, February 10 @ 09:44:43 PST
- by Virgil on Saturday, February 10 @ 10:18:50 PST
- by Ed on Saturday, February 10 @ 10:50:58 PST
Re: Old Church Model 'Killing the West' (Score: 1)
by Fredrico on Saturday, February 10 @ 08:29:25 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | I thought the article brought out an important error that so many churches fall into. In talking with new converts or even unbelievers I have seen too often the mistake of trying to get them into church. They are told, “You have to go to church.” Of course they have to use the reference in Heb 10:25 about not forsaking the assembling. Others will speak about their pastors and build them up saying, “you have to hear this preacher, he is really good.” Some churches hold contests to see who can bring in the most people for that month. I was in one of those contests before and won but it was not too long after that I saw the error of it because they all eventually left.
That was an eye opener for me and I believe God used it to show me what was really important. Since then I have never pointed people to church or built up a pastor as one they needed to hear. I have talked to people about God and directed them to His Word. This is what we all need. We need that true relationship with the Lord without the middleman such as a preacher or Sunday school teacher.
The practice of discipling has been around for some time now. It is helpful to have someone around to talk with if you are a new Christian but there are dangers even in that. We should be aware if we are discipling someone not to get them dependent upon us. This error I have seen where someone begins to instruct another and ends up with the person following them. We want people to think on their own and not follow us but the Lord. That requires a large degree of trust in the Lord. We are aware of the errors one may fall into throughout life and we know there are some out there trying to recruit whoever they can to join their group. We have to let go and trust God to care for them as He has cared for us. God can protect His people much better than we can. Do we want to create a bunch of disciples just like our selves? Some do, not letting them be their own person. Some have the idea that they know all that is needed and try to shape another’s ideas.
This gets into pasturing or shepherding a flock and wanting to protect them from the countless errors they could encounter. I think a healthy concern for our brothers and sisters in the Lord are needful. We still need to be careful not be too domineering. Let us be able to express our ideas but not force them down anyone’s spiritual throat. If what we say is true we should leave it in God’s hands to use it as He wills. What is we are wrong in some doctrine we hold but still try to force it on others? What will that accomplish? I think we need to be more humble toward each other while we trust God to do His work among us. I am not saying we should not warn others about what we think is error and why because we should, but we have to give others the freedoms we have had or taken ourselves.
I do believe the traditional church setting has many flaws in the mentality it fosters. I think the emphasis is wrong and that leads to stagnant Christians. I personally think the whole American church scene is in error. We have Americanized Christianity and see all through western eyes. Yet, despite that God works through it all. Our sins or errors are no obstacle for God but we still should strive to learn and do what is right.
As a person grows physically they change and as one acquires more knowledge they mature and their ideas change. So it must be with the Christian. As we mature in the Lord we will change and seeing we are always maturing we should always be changing. It goes for any assembly or congregation also. Congregations should be maturing and so changing. I’m not saying the changes need be drastic or some may be but simply that change should occur. Can you look back two or three years ago in your life and see how you have changed? I think we all can but I must admit there are some that have the same ideas for thirty years and never changed. Some congregations are exactly the same as from their beginnings which show they follow tradition and not the Spir
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