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Exclusive: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection
Posted on Friday, February 02 @ 20:53:13 PST by Jack Scott

PlanetPreterist Columns by Jack Scott
I appreciate so much the desire of Mr. Burk and others to wrestle with the issue of resurrection; it is the essence of covenant life. Not a facet of, or a building block in, it is the finished work of God in Christ. Therefore, if we misapply the timing of the resurrection it skews the wonderful effect of covenant life in Christ; or better perhaps, it evinces a skewed perception of the nature of covenant life.

I agree whole heartedly with Sam's response(s) and would like to add a few thoughts of my own to the implications of any who hold to a view that resurrection and immortality are a yet future event realized at the point of biological death. I hope to point out that the consequences of this view have a serious negative impact on the very nature of God's redemptive work. I wish to underscore at the outset that I do not wish to attribute motives or intent with this review; I accept on the face of it that Mr. Burk and all others espousing similar positions have the best of intent.

Approximately 10 or 11 years ago I, Don Preston and a few others were among the first to hear Ed Stevens begin to share his views (questions at the time) concerning the nature of resurrection. Ed was very concerned, and expressed it, that if we did not find an explanation for resurrection that incorporated the physical body as the primary focus, then the scholars from among the "Reformed" camp would have nothing to do with us. We assured him at that time and times subsequent; that what the reformed community, or any other for that matter, thought of us was of no consequence to us. In those discussions I asked Ed some questions, the implications of which seemed very troubling to me as well as the others who were there. Ed admitted at the time that he wasn't sure how to answer those questions and that he would have to think about it. I have yet see in any writings of the proponents of this view any response to these concerns or those expressed by Sam in all of his spot on defenses.

The effects of this view, I believe, can only be described as a complete surrender of the whole paradigm of covenant eschatology/preterism. This fear was reinforced to me personally 2 years ago, the morning after the close of the Voice of Reason conference in Sparta, NC. Ron Wagner and I were having Breakfast with John Anderson and his wife and Lloyd Dale and his wife. Many issues were discussed and debated, but the discussion soon centered on the timing and nature of resurrection. Both Lloyd and John were espousing that resurrection life was not realized until physical death. To say I and Ron were shocked would be an understatement. Both Ron and I attempted to underscore the nature of covenant life and immortality being equal to resurrection. As it became obvious to all the implications of what these men were saying (both of whom I love), John's wife expressed her confusion and said "I thought I had life in Christ, are you telling me that we don't have it yet." Lloyd shook his head "no" and John responded "no we don't, we have the promise of it." Flabbergasted isn't a strong enough description of what I felt. I looked at her as did Ron and we assured her that in Christ she did have resurrected-immortal new covenant life.

I give this personal anecdote not to disparage these men, nor to encourage any negative treatment of them, but to demonstrate that the view they espouse is anything but classic preterism; it is futurism dressed up as preterism. I hope to demonstrate in what follows that it is in fact a denial of the consummation of the new covenant.

Allow me to highlight just a few points. One of the unassailable truths that preterism is based upon is that for the world, i.e. heaven and earth identified with the old covenant age to pass, all things foretold and promised within it must be fulfilled (Matt. 5:17-18). Jesus further stated that none of it could pass until all of it was fulfilled. This is the reasoning that has advanced the heart and soul of fulfilled redemption/preterism/covenant eschatology.

Now fast forward with me to Paul's discussion of resurrection in 1 Cor. 15. As he draws his argument to a conclusion he says: "for...this mortal must put on immortality" (15:53). Anticipating the question "when" he answers "so when...this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass (i.e. brought to fulfillment) the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 'O death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?' The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law" (15:54-56).

The obvious point of Paul's stated argument is to identify when these old covenant prophecies (Isa. 25:8 & Hos. 13:14) would be fulfilled, allowing as Christ predicted, the old heaven and earth to pass and the new to supplant it. Regardless of its nature, Paul's inspired answer, as Sam so capably showed, was within their lifetime, when the sting of death-Sin was removed by the victory of resurrection over the strength of sin-the Law.

These old cov. promises are not fulfilled until death is overcome with resurrection, i.e., mortality has put on immortality. The question rising from all of this is, "when then is the old cov. fulfilled; when is the promise of resurrected immortal life realized?" Hear the answer of the modern proponents of resurrection at physical death, "Not Yet! Not until you physically die!" The ENTIRE "last days" redemptive worked of God to bring covenantal, immortal life is now held hostage to the biological death of every living Christian; as well as the fulfillment of all old cov. promises. None can pass till all is fulfilled. At best the fulfillment of all redemptive promises is something that only happens at the death of each individual covenant believer. Clearly, Paul sees no such protracted delay taking place throughout the millennia to follow.

Briefly, let me address this very point and its implications from the vantage point of another new cov. fulfillment context: Hebrews 10:11-18. As will be shown, this is a companion of both 1 Cor 15 and Heb. 8. The writer's overall context: the superiority of the Priesthood, temple, sacrifice, atonement and covenant of Christ vs. the Mosaic; this is eschatology 101 among preterists. Concerning Christ's superior, one-time, priestly offering, that is the empowerment of the New Cov., the understood question of the whole context (chs. 9-10) is “when.” The answers: When the "promise of the eternal inheritance" comes with the New Cov. mediated by Christ (9:15); at the "appearing a second time apart from sin for salvation" by Christ (9:28); in a "very very little while" (10:37). What is commonly missed though, are the implications of 10:11-18. Again, Christ is superior, able to do what the old could not do. What is the one thing the old could not do? It could not provide immortal, covenantal, resurrected life. The Hebrew writer answers when this take place: "But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us...this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them...their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." So, what is the expectation of these two chapters? Nothing less than the realization of Jeremiah’s promises of the New Cov. (31:31-34); the removal of sin's guilt - the reception salvation (9:28), the essence of the eternal inheritance/promise (9:15; 10:36).

Yet, in this context there is an absolute, incontrovertible indicator as to when this process would be finished, i.e., the "When." Concerning the interim time of the writing, he pens "But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool" (10:12-13). When would all of these blessings be realized - the blessings which are the essence of Jeremiah's New Cov. prophecy? Answer: when His enemies are made His footstool!

I believe most reading this already see the implications. The "last days" are the days when Christ's work is defeating all enemies of man's redemptive hopes (Heb. 1:1ff.). The question, having so much relevance to Paul's treatment of resurrection is, "what is the last enemy?" His answer, therefore the ultimate answer to the Hebrews writer's "when will the New Cov. be realized?" is "For he must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be (lit. "being") destroyed is death" (15:25-26).

The realization of all New Cov. redemptive hopes are when His enemies are defeated. The last enemy is death, therefore the New Cov. redemptive hopes will only be realized and empowered when death is overcome in life, i.e., RESURRECTION! This point cannot be missed, Paul's resurrection, whatever and whenever it is, is the overthrow of death - the last enemy, which is when the blessings of the New Cov. are realized.

If resurrection is something only realized at physical death or some other future time as advocated by many preterists, then that is "when" in their scheme "death" is finally overcome. The concomitant disastrous implication is that this is when, and only when, the New Cov. is realized. Such has led some at least, like those mentioned earlier to suggest, consistently, that we do not yet have life only the hope of it.

Excuse me, but I can only reject such a view as strongly as I know how. I don't reject the men who mistakenly hold to it - I love them, but the implications of their doctrine are contradictory to every tenant of fulfilled redemption, and should be lovingly opposed.

As always, I will encourage, and only be involved in, a reasoned and loving examination of the issues at hand. It is my hope that this will contribute positively to the search of those who read these things. Thanks and God Bless.

Jack Scott



------

Jack Scott is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.

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Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.


 
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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by JohnM on Saturday, February 03 @ 00:50:50 PST
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Jack,

I had recently posted a response in Burk's thread addressed to Sam that I entitled "A Sligtly Different View". This could easily be made applicable here as a response to your fine encouragements.

I think I might be able to more adequately see what you are saying if someone can address these questions:

1) Should a covenantal Christian (while living in a body of flesh in the year 2007) be encouraged to overcome sin and temptation? 2) Is there indwelling sin in the flesh of a covenantal Christian?

(If, perhaps, one says that sin still dwells in the flesh then how are we to understand the reach of Christ's fulfilled victory over sin and death? If, perhaps, one says that there is now no indwelling sin in the flesh, then are covenantal Christians supposed to view sin as a "mirage" empty of all reality?)

I say that sin does, yes, dwell in the flesh. Even after the Parousia. And I conclude that this sin does not spring from the "law of Moses". And I submit that all of this is not in the least bit inconsistent with Christ's victory over Sin and Death.

But may I hear how someone with your covenant-theology perspective would answer the above two questions.....

JohnM


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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by Reformer on Saturday, February 03 @ 08:15:58 PST
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May I suggest that the full reality of resurrection is a "both/and" proposition instead of an "either/or." That is, both sides of this issue being discussed here contain valid truths and points.

This "both/and" position was presented in my book "Shattering the 'Left Behind' Delusion."
I call it to your attention.

Blessings,

John Noe







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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by Parker on Saturday, February 03 @ 11:00:41 PST
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IMHO, this argument is based on a limited definition of what resurrection is. Therefore, the article tackles a problem that isn't really there to begin with.

Resurrection has various meanings (or aspects) in the NT. For example, baptism was/is part of resurrection life. Likewise, the end of the Hadean state of death at AD 70 was another part of resurrection. Resurrection is a multifaceted thing. The fact that resurrection life has implications for what happens to individuals at physical death in no way harms the thesis of preterism. A person who dies in God's favor AFTER AD 70 has a different experience than a person who died PRIOR TO AD 70. Why? Because resurrection made it so--it changed what happens to people at physical death (just like it changes what happens to people through Baptism).

In fact, both partial and full preterists can affirm such "resurrection" as a present reality. That is, both camps may affirm that resurrection was fully present in the Covenant no later than AD 70. Christians receive benefits via their union with the eternal Covenant of Christ.

To put it another way: AD 70 ushered in various covenant states and blessings that had been unaccessable to men prior to Christ's generation. These states and blessings are not automatically bestowed on every human being from the moment of conception in the womb (which for us is also long after AD 70). Rather, they are ever present in the Covenant after AD 70, and people unite themselves to the covenant. That is, since AD 70, millions of people have united themselves to Covenant, and they have done so at various times in history and at various times in their lives. They received benefits at such points of time beyond AD 70. Believing that humans receive benefits individually after AD 70 this doesn't make one a futurist.


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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by Sam on Saturday, February 03 @ 21:28:23 PST
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Jack,

Wow. Did I say, "wow"? I meant, WOW FLIPPIN'WEE! Parker's response notwithstanding, the view espoused by Mr. Scott is TEXTUALLY driven. That is, WE AGREE that the event of the parousia, the resurrection of the dead, their "change" and the "change" of the "living" are SIMULTANEOUS EVENTS. In fact, all evangelicalism AGREES on this point, for the most part. I do not seek to reinvent the wheel here. the DIFFERENCE, of course, is that for Preterists, this event happened, and the consequences of this fact leads to A): we are therefore, upon faith, incorporated into the Resurrected, Spiritual Body of Christ (the Last Adam), or B): those saints were "raptured" and changed, but subsequent saints are not changed until they physically die or C): the saints were not raptured, but must wait until physical death in order to be changed. Jack has offered a brief explanation of the A) view. This is a critical issue, for, as you can see, people have raised questions concerning "sin" and "living" in light of "being transformed" in Christ. That is, can I drink my beer and eat it, too? Jack will be at the conference in April...pick his mind there...SEE YOU THERE, Jack!

Sam


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"Eternal Life" is not equal to "The Resurrection of the Just" (Score: 1)
by JohnRiffe (mail@TulsaPreteristAssociation.org) on Sunday, February 04 @ 11:30:18 PST
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Someone else has written, "Preterism is an interpretive system that is locked on the events of 66-70 A.D. It views this as the decisive eschatological event. The Second Coming, Resurrection of the Dead and Great Judgment are seen as having taken place in and around these years."

I agree with this statement. And I would be considered a Preterist for doing so. But I see an inconsistency is its author's system of thought as layed out in other places. Though he admits that the Last Day and its associated events began somewhere around 66-70AD, he continues to confuse the blessing of Eternal Life that was granted BEFORE these events with the Resurrection that was to come AFTER these events. But Jesus made a distinction between the two:

"Whoso eatheth My Flesh, and drinketh My Blood, hath Eternal Life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day." ~ Jesus, circa AD 28.

Jesus employs the present tense "hath" to describe what His obedient followers ALREADY HAD BEFORE the Last Day, ("Hath Eternal Life").
Jesus employs the future tense "I will" to describe what obedient followers WOULD RECEIVE AT the Last Day, ("I will raise him up").

The Scriptures that speak in past or present tense of what believers already had in Christ are talking about them already having "Eternal Life."
The Scriptures that speak in future tense of what believers would receive at the anticipated Resurrection are talking about "Being Raised Up."
But many Preterists gladly confuse the two: they like to equate John 6:54's "Eternal Life" with John 6:54's "Being Raised Up."
(As mainstream Christianity would put it, "They confuse Justification with Resurrection").

So when someone gladly and consistently and insistently and publically equates
A) all the Scriptures that describe what pre-Parousia Christians ALREADY HAD BEFORE the Last Day, ("Hath Eternal Life"),
with
B) all the Promised blessings that were TO BE GRANTED AT the Last Day, ("I will raise him up"),
he is only attempting to spread his confusion. (Why not just back up and quietly think again?)



IN SUMMARY:

IF we hold to a Preterism defined strictly in this wise: "Preterism is an interpretive system that is locked on the events of 66-70 A.D. It views this as the decisive eschatological event. The Second Coming, Resurrection of the Dead and Great Judgment are seen as having taken place in and around these years," that is, the Last Day occured in or about 66-70 A.D.

AND we agree with Jesus in John 6:54 that those who were regular partakers of the Lord's Supper already had Eternal Life
and were to receive Resurrection at the Last Day,

THEN we should agree that there is no honest way any of those Scriptures describing what Christians already had prior to the Parousia can be employed to describe the Resurrection for which those Christians yearned. Already received pre-Parousia blessings (Eternal Life) are distinct from anticipated post-Parousia blessings (Resurrection). "Eternal Life" and "The Resurrection of the Just" are not the same thing.


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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by Malachi on Friday, February 09 @ 14:35:29 PST
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Hi Jack,

Great to see you around. Hope you make time to come to Carlsbad in March. It would be great to see you.

You must admit, however, that the immortality saints this side of eternity received at the eschaton (now at baptism) is merely legal and conditional. That is, we can lose this "immortality" by falling from grace, much as Adam did. So, plainly, there is a manner in which we must wait until death before we can claim our immortality is actual and unconditional. Any other position is to affirm the "impossibility of apostasy", which I don't think we want to do. This has always been my gripe with Sam. He wants to argue it is ours irrevocably now. But that is not true. :)


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Re: The Nature and Timing of Resurrection (Score: 1)
by Trace on Saturday, April 14 @ 09:26:22 PDT
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I heard Jack's talk yesterday through the live telecast and it was clearly presented and reiterated here, thank you. I look forward to Part 2 of his talk this afternoon. I also understand Jack was the pastor at a preterist church in Ohio before moving to Montana... I wish he was still there! It's hard to find churches that teach covenant eschatology, here in Ohio, or anywhere for that matter.


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