 |
 |
|
I just picked up my Bible and I held it and I pointed it at one of the edges of the spine and I said Spirit, in the Name of Jesus Christ, my Bible says this is a sword and I command that you be run through with this sword and tormented until you obey me, and I just took the Bible and the edge of the spine and shoved it right at the chest of this man and the demon screamed, Why did you stab me with that thing?! Get it out of me! Take it away! All right, I'll do what you want me to do! -- Bob Larson Live, March 26, 1996 |
|
 |  |
Preterism: Baptism Now Saves You
Posted on Sunday, January 21 @ 08:32:41 PST by Virgil |
|
by David A. Green
What was the baptism that was saving the first-century saints? We have two basic choices: It was either a ritual baptism or a spiritual (or non-ritual) baptism. If we say that the New-Testament saving baptism to which the Noahic experience corresponded was a ritual baptism, one of many problems immediately presents itself: It is Biblically incongruous that an old-testament event prefigured a ritual. It is on the other hand an established hermeneutical principle that old-testament rituals prefigured New-Testament events / experiences / realities. And since old-testament rituals (such as sacrifices) symbolized New-Testament non-rituals (such as the death of Christ/the believer’s sacrifice of praise), it seems even more likely that the non-ritual Noahic salvation foreshadowed a New-Testament non-ritual baptism.
"All the fountains of the great deep burst open and the floodgates of the sky were opened... after Noah and his family of seven had entered the ark. It rained for forty days and forty nights, the waters rose above the mountains, and the ark floated on the surface of the water... All flesh that moved on the earth perished... and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark" (Gen. 7:11,18,21,23).
"...the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ . . . " (I Peter 3:21)
What was the baptism that was saving the first-century saints? We have two basic choices: It was either a ritual baptism or a spiritual (or non-ritual) baptism.
If we say that the New-Testament saving baptism to which the Noahic experience corresponded was a ritual baptism, one of many problems immediately presents itself: It is Biblically incongruous that an old-testament event prefigured a ritual. It is on the other hand an established hermeneutical principle that old-testament rituals prefigured New-Testament events / experiences / realities. And since old-testament rituals (such as sacrifices) symbolized New-Testament non-rituals (such as the death of Christ/the believer’s sacrifice of praise), it seems even more likely that the non-ritual Noahic salvation foreshadowed a New-Testament non-ritual baptism.
But ignoring this obstacle for now, let us examine how I Peter 3:21 might be understood to teach that the salvation of Noah and his family in the ark could have somehow typified a ritual-baptism:
Perhaps Peter might have been speaking of one of the ritual baptisms mentioned in Heb. 9:10,13,19-22 ("various washings" in 9:10 is literally "various baptisms"). The problem with this proposal is that those baptisms were only to be "imposed until a time of reformation" (Heb. 9:10), that is, until the consummation of the old covenant. It is hardly believable that ritual-baptisms which could not perfect one's conscience (Heb. 9:9), and which were destined to be done away in the disappearance of the old covenant (Heb. 8:13; 9:10) were "saving" the Christians in the apostolic era.
But perhaps Peter was talking about the ritual-baptism which was being administered to converts to Christianity. If we are going to say this, we must presuppose that Christian ritual-baptism was not included in the "various baptisms" of Heb. 9:10 that were only to be imposed until A.D. 70. If Christian ritual-baptism came out of the old covenant, and was thus to be no longer "imposed" after A.D. 70, then it would be axiomatic that Christian ritual-baptism was not the saving baptism of I Peter 3:21. (We will save a discussion on the cessation or continuation of Christian ritual-baptism for another place.)
There is another problem though with the idea of the saving baptism in I Peter 3:21 being a ritual, and that is the tense of the verb "saves." The verb is present tense, active voice, and the phrase literally reads, "baptism is now saving you." The meaning seems to be that just as Noah and his family were in process of being saved by a baptism in the ark, so were the first-century believers in process of being saved by baptism. This should further lead us to consider the saving baptism as being spiritual.
Thus far, general hermeneutical principles of typology, the weakness and temporary nature of the old-covenant rituals and the tense of the verb "saves" ("saving") direct us toward the idea that the baptism of I Peter 3:21 might be a non-ritual, spiritual baptism. But what kind of a non-ritual baptism could have been in process of saving the first-century Christians?
Click here to read the entire article
|
| |
 |
^^Go to Top - E-mail to Friend - Print - View PDF - Subscribe - Comments RSS
Re: Baptism Now Saves You (Score: 1)
by mazuur on Monday, January 22 @ 10:50:20 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | "What was the baptism that was saving the first-century saints? We have two basic choices: It was either a ritual baptism or a spiritual (or non-ritual) baptism."
Well gee wiz, all one needs to do is read the NT and look at the kind of baptisms Christians were practicing. Is it not clear they were water baptisms? Has anybody ever read the book of Acts? And these were all subjected to the teachings coming from the Apostles. Or is one to assume, like the futurist, that the Apostles were wrong?
If they were "spiritual" baptisms then the Apostles would have taught as such, and you would not see the practice even being observed, especially by the Gentiles.
But instead we see Paul himself upon his conversion and after fasting for three day (Acts 9.9) get up from being healed by Ananias and immediately was baptized. He didn't eat or drink first, but was baptized (Acts 9.18-19). Hmmmm....what was his hurry? He only then, after, decided to eat and drink to regain his strength.
I suppose one could dream up a rationale for doing away with physical baptism, of course all one needs to do is 1) ignore the book of Acts and the many references to baptism in the Epistles (of course what do we see in this article?, one reference), 2) ignore the purpose of Christian baptism.
For a more balanced presentation of Christian Baptism and the reason it will always be a need Post AD 70, I have to recommend Max King's work on the subject. Max devoted and entire chapter at the end of his book "The Cross and the Parousia of Christ" to Baptism.
Rich
P.S. Max also devoted and entire chapter to the subject of the Lord's Supper too. Excellent commentary on the subject for those who may be confused post AD 70. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Virgil on Monday, January 22 @ 12:36:32 PST
- by Starlight on Monday, January 22 @ 13:46:10 PST
- by Virgil on Monday, January 22 @ 13:50:59 PST
- by Starlight on Monday, January 22 @ 14:16:05 PST
- by Terry on Thursday, January 25 @ 05:06:54 PST
Re: Baptism Now Saves You (Score: 1)
by Jer on Tuesday, January 23 @ 06:48:05 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | We have two basic choices: It was either a ritual baptism or a spiritual (or non-ritual) baptism.
This is a false dilemma. It could be both. |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Barry on Tuesday, January 23 @ 10:12:25 PST
Re: Baptism Now Saves You (Score: 1)
by Terry on Tuesday, January 23 @ 08:39:04 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | The Peter who wrote 1 Peter 3:21 used the Greek "antitupos" to parallel the flood with baptism-a concept each member of his audience was familiar with. This is the same Peter who said-regarding gentiles in Acts 10 "Can anyone forbid water to baptize these also?"
Paul also references baptism to his Romans audience in the same way-as something they had all participated in. He parallel's this experience-participated in by each believer- to the death burial and resurrection of Christ. In Romans 6 and Colossians 2 it is plain that this is not event unfolding and culminating in the fall of Jerusalem. It is something that they had already done, and which could be referred to by Paul in the exortation to right living. I don't want to offend anyone, but these aren't difficult passages. They only become difficult when we wish to do away with the plain meaning of the texts. I also reference Max's earlier writing on the subject. This is a new covenant ordinance, not a Jewish covenant ordinance. It was for gentiles as well as Jews. There are accounts of baptisms in Acts so we don't have to guess what they were doing. And there is NO passage telling the disciples this was a temporary item to be shortly done away with.
In Love/
Terry M. Hall
Dayton, Ohio |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by Paige on Tuesday, January 23 @ 09:23:29 PST
- by Terry on Tuesday, January 23 @ 13:20:18 PST
Re: Baptism Now Saves You (Score: 1)
by Malachi on Thursday, February 01 @ 10:43:30 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | | It is a false dichotomy to say baptism which saves must be either a ritual or a spiritual. A third possibility is that the ritual baptism is also a spiritual baptism (i.e., by the Spirit). See I Cor. 12:13. If by "spiritual" you mean "figurative" then, you are quite mistaken. It is water baptism in which men's sin are washed away and and we are added to the body/church of Christ and thus are saved. (Acts 2:38; 22:16; Mk. 16:15, 16; Col. 2:11, 12; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3-6; Jno. 3:3-5) The church fathers are unanimous on this as is also the Nicene Creed. It was not until hundreds of years (actually 1,500 yrs) later that the idea men are saved by "faith alone" can into vogue. Anyone who is teaching men to abandon baptism is teaching men to ignore the commandment of the Lord himself! |
[ To reply to this, please login or register ]
- by JL on Thursday, February 01 @ 12:26:19 PST
|
|