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"Phobos, one of Mars moons, will be removed from its orbit and will fall to the Earth..." -- Melody Mehta |
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by Samuel Frost Paul tells us to consider God’s kindness in a passage where “wrath”, “judgment” and “hardness” are mentioned. God “hardens” hearts of individuals. He has “mercy” on whom he has mercy. It’s his choice. The problem is, we humans don’t like God’s choices because we deem them as “unfair.” But Paul’s only response to this is: “who are you, O’ man, to talk back to God?” That’s a deep question.
Who are we to say that God can and God cannot do this and that because, in our great estimation, it is “unfair”? When did our sense of fairness become God’s standard? I am recently translating the Book of Micah, and I noticed where the NIV again drops the ball in its quest to be a “dynamic equivalent” linguistically speaking.
In Mi 2.1 the prophet wrote, “Woe to those who plan sin…who plot evil…” The word for “evil” here is ra. The NIV got this right. However, they miss the boat when, in verse 3, they translate: “Therefore the LORD says: I am planning disaster against this people…for it will be a time of calamity.” Notice the words “disaster” and “calamity” there. Both are the same word in 2.1: ra. In reading Hebrew, one cannot fail to miss the lexical force of the prophet’s use of this single term in three instances here: woe to you who plot evil. I, the LORD, am going to plot evil myself against you!” Micah, and I add, the Holy Spirit who so guided Micah to use the word ra, is making an incredible statement concerning God’s prerogative over the affairs of men. But, I can hear the post-modern, politically correct crowd began their whine: that ain’t fair! And, I can hear their argumentative protests that this makes God arbitrary. Perhaps the more sophisticated PC pendants would give us a lesson in semantics, noting that ra does not always mean evil. Well, there were other terms our dear brother Micah could have used, but he uses this single one three times in one passage…think he has a point? Man’s plotting evil versus God’s plotting evil?
Christians have a hard time dealing with a God who is sovereign and very much aware of human suffering. At this moment a child is being raped, a limb is being hacked, a baby is being aborted and a pornography film is being made – add a homosexual pornography film. And God knows each of the people involved. He knows their very thoughts while they raise the knife or roll the camera. He knows every detail of their evil acts. The prophets let us know that he has a little evil in store for them, too. It may strike us strange, but the prophets never conjure up the so called “question of evil” or “problem of evil” in the world. After all, why should they? It’s God’s world.
Some may notice that God here is repaying evil with evil. True. What’s the problem? Where does it say that he can’t? Who will say to him, “hey, man, peace! Smoke a doobie!” (which is the source of much of the now fifty something politically correct used to be hippies). “Doesn’t the Bible say not to repay evil with evil”? Yes, it does. But that’s written to man, not to God. God is under no law and no obligation except his own being. Kant, the nineteenth century German rationalist, developed the idea that God cannot command man to do that which man is not able to do. Similarly, some have the idea that God cannot do or break commandments that he gives to men. But, these ideas are rooted in freewill philosophy, of which Kant was.
Let me give an example of this reasoning: God commands men to love him with all their strength, mind and soul. Ask yourself, is that humanly possible apart from the grace and power of God? 24 hours a day? Heck, if I could do that in my own strength and mind, then why do I even need “the power of God”? That ought to settle the first problem. The second one raised is that God says to “love your enemy.” But, God is under no obligation to love his enemies. Just because he tells a man not to lie, does not put God under the obligation that he cannot “bring such a powerful deception so that they believe the lie” (II Thes 2.11). God causes people to believe lies? God forbid, says the dope smoking, tree hugging postmodernist. That’s not cool, dude!
These are just some thoughts I thought I’d share from my studies in Micah, which will be available soon on our website in a lecture format (www.thereignofchrist.com). I did have one other thought, since there is so much “love” going around. How can a God who loves as much as some say that he does turn around and condemn a person who was once saved and believed? That is, how can a truly converted person, saved by the love of God, turn around and sin to the point that God says, “that’s it, you’re not saved anymore!” Wouldn’t love mean that “I saved you and love you regardless of your sins. In fact, I am with you the rest of your life, furiously pursuing you, in spite of you defects and shortcomings, and I will always love you and never separate myself from you.” Man, now that sounds like some heavy duty love action! Oh, yes, but that involves that pesky evil Calvinist doctrine of perseverance of the saints, the P in the TULIP. And, well, we can’t have that, because that would require that God did love us in such a way, and, well, we just can’t have God loving us that much. Hey, but the homosexual pastor, he’s gold! Besides that, that much love from God would negate freewill, and that’s the one sacred cow that must not, can not, ever be even questioned! Ask yourself again, in the words of Roger Daltrey and Pete Townsend, who are you?
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Samuel Frost is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com. Samuel is a MA Pastor of Christ Covenant Church in Tampa Florida. He is the author of Misplaced Hope and Exegetical Essays on the Resurrection of the Dead, both available in the PlanetPreterist bookstore.
View Samuel Frost archives
Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by valensname on Thursday, August 31 @ 19:51:23 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Sam,
Thanks for the post.
After reading Furious Pursuit, I recall, had it on tape, a sermon series Tim King preached that was titled, Can A Child of God Fall from Grace, If Ever? He said then, over 10 years ago, that one could and it was a progression to reach that point. I agree with what he said then. It seems to me that that idea was not in his latest work. I agree with much in Furious Pursuit but I think it kinda didn't paint the whole picture.
Seems I recall something about, don't know where exactly at the moment, passages in the OT about better for a man to do evil and turn from it than for him to have done good and then turn to evil.
Glenn |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by Ransom on Thursday, August 31 @ 20:38:50 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Sam, Sam, Sam...
For starters, you're making a common mistake in your translation methodology. Language is not a code where X in one language equals Y in another. This rarely, if ever, happens with non-function words. In fact, no two people use the same word in the same language with all the same semantic tags. Your argument from Micah rests on the presupposition that the meaning of ra is simply "evil", and you implicitly make it mean everything that modern English speakers mean by the word "evil". However, even you admit that ra has other shades of meaning! You say that the threefold iteration of it must refer to "evil" and not "calamity" because, natch, the first instance meant "evil" - oh yeah, and it was repeated three times! I'd hate to think what would happen if you let your theology dictate your translation!
Perhaps "evil" should be defined in this passage as "destruction motivated by a wish for another's detriment", if this is indeed the sort of ra Micah is woeing here. What is more likely still is that here was a term used often in a specific sense ("evil") to refer to these men's activities being linked in a bland sense to God's activity to mean "unfortuitous activity, calamity" for dramatic rhetorical effect. It's the same sort of thing Jesus did when he quoted Psalm 82, "I have said, 'You are gods.'" It's being used in a more bland sense since "elohim" can indeed mean both "gods" and "mighty ones". The context Jesus uses it in was in response to the Jews' indignation that a man would claim to be deity, but he turned it around and used the term of them in a looser sense (or at least so any orthodox Christian would affirm) for dramatic and rhetorical effect. Hey, just because they weren't hippy tree-huggers doesn't mean that the Israelites (let alone God!) were incapable of expressing themselves with some modi***** of stylistic expression.
And if that's not enough sophisticated pedantry for you, let me point out that "PC" doesn't mean "disagrees with Sam Frost", any more than anyone who happens to believe goodness to be an objective quality rather than a relative one (now who's the relativist?!) arrived at that conclusion because of a predilection for free love and reefers.
But another major problem you leave unaddressed. James 1:13 makes it clear that God does not want to be associated with agency in evil. "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." If evil must be defined in ways that do not limit God, if it exists only as a description of man's deviance from God's ways, if "evil" does not apply to God, then why would James make such a point to say that God must not be blamed for trials of evil (check the context), even trials which were to be used for the spiritual edification of their subjects? |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by Virgil on Thursday, August 31 @ 20:52:32 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Some may notice that God here is repaying evil with evil. True. What’s the problem? Where does it say that he can’t?
Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift? :) These are the wrong questions to ask!
My dear brother, the entire Biblical narrative is a love story, not a payback story. That is the story of our lives, and it accounts for love, sovereignty and suffering without much discord. God does not allow children to die and porn to be made...WE DO! And to God, from his infinite position, sitting down outside of time and space, our petty Calvinism vs. Free Will discussions are likely irrelevant while we do let children suffer, to use your own example.
There is a reason John wrote: " Let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth."
We can have our theology all lined up and nice, and it means nothing as long as we lack love. But the problem with Calvinism (as I see it) is that it justifies things like "paying evil with evil" or "hating certain people" and "only loving some people" because if God himself does these things, why should we not do them?
On the other hand, if God does love all people (as I believe the Scriptures to be teaching) and does not pay evil with evil, and truly pursues all people with the offer of love and redemption, then I can say, what an awesome example God has given us to live by, and what a thing to copy in our daily actions, interactions and relationships; God wants us to do exactly what he himself does!
I love ya Sam! :) |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by Jer on Friday, September 01 @ 13:01:38 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | According to Calvin, God not only “knows...their evil acts,” but he created them with the proclivity to commit evil. “We call predestination God’s eternal decree, by which He determined what He willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is ordained for some, eternal damnation for others.” (John Calvin)
We can conclude from Calvin that no one can choose to do other than God's will with regard to salvation. In fact, each one's fate is sealed from eternity.
However, consider, Matt 7:21: “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven--only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
If we structure Matthew 7:21 as an argument, the implicit conclusion contradicts Calvin.
1) If one does the will of God, then s/he will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 7:21b)
2) Not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 7:21a)
Therefore, not everyone does the will of God. (Implicit)
According to Calvin, no one can “will” against God's will with regard to salvation. The truth of the implicit conclusion above is guaranteed by the true of the premises. So which premise is untrue? Perhaps Calvin is wrong. Perhaps my understanding of logic and/or Matt 7:21 is colored by my perceptions.
Of course, it's more complicated than a single argument or an acronym. IMHO, Calvin's Adam / Fall problem is not remedied in Preterism's Post-Parousia Christ. (For example, see my comments on Sam's other article here: http://planetpreterist.com/news-2590.html) The manifestations of man's so-called sin nature are apparent even in Christians today. Calvin did not envision this Post-Parousia reality.
For example, he writes:
"All of us, therefore, descending from an impure seed, come into the world tainted with the contagion of sin. Nay, before we behold the light of the sun we are in God's sight defiled and polluted. 'Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? Not one,' says the Book of Job, (Job 14: 4.)
We thus see that the impurity of parents is transmitted to their children, so that all, without exception, are originally depraved. The commencement of this depravity will not be found until we ascend to the first parent of all as the fountain head. We must, therefore, hold it for certain, that, in regard to human nature, Adam was not merely a progenitor, but, as it were, a root, and that, accordingly, by his corruption, the whole human race was deservedly vitiated. This is plain from the contrast which the Apostle draws between Adam and Christ, 'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned; even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord,' (Rom. 5: 19-21.) "
We may ask: If a child is born to Christian parents, in light of Preterism, is the infant still “impure” and “originally depraved”? (BTW, if I'm not mistaken, Sam argues against Calvin's "universal" view of Romans 5 in the article link I mentioned above.) Perhaps the problem of Adam has been ill-defined. After all, he did sin before he had a “sin nature.” I think there is more to learn in our efforts to harmonize the end and the beginning. Just a few thoughts.
Jer |
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- by Windpressor on Sunday, September 03 @ 00:22:19 PDT
Can God Be Too Kind? (Score: 1)
by davo on Friday, September 01 @ 22:27:35 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) |
Sam: Micah, and I add, the Holy Spirit who so guided Micah to use the word ra, is making an incredible statement concerning God’s prerogative over the affairs of men. But, I can hear the post-modern, politically correct crowd began their whine: that ain’t fair!
It may strike us strange, but the prophets never conjure up the so called “question of evil” or “problem of evil” in the world. After all, why should they? It’s God’s world. I have to agree that the issue of "evil" is more "our problem" than God's. Just as we do with the issue of "repentance", we so easily, readily and naturally associate evil with sin – yet such need not be the case carte blanche. For instance, who created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil? – God did. And who in the OT is more associated with "repentance"? – God is:
Ex 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
God REPENTED of EVIL – kind of give you an angle on repentance and evil that is somewhat foreign to popular fundamentalism.
Sam: God commands men to love him with all their strength, mind and soul. Ask yourself, is that humanly possible apart from the grace and power of God? .24 hours a day? Heck, if I could do that in my own strength and mind, then why do I even need “the power of God”? I would be so adventurous to say that even WITH "the grace and power of God" such is not possible – yours, mine and everybody else's life IS testimony to this fact – this is why we NEED/ED Jesus and HIS life in our stead. Even Israel demonstrated repeatedly they could not do it, and they were the elect.
This Idea that God is under no obligation to bow to the whims of man is a convenient furphy and reframing of the issue in order to avoid the logical – that He expects of lesser ones more than He in example ["imitate God" Eph 5:1; 1Cor 11:1] is Himself is prepared to do IN LIGHT OF THE NEW COVENANT – and THAT'S the difference, the new covenant. You who so readily rush to judgment and condemnation [exclusivity] do so from an old covenant mind-set; and for so-called preterists this is a joke considering what we know of that which was "ready to vanish away".
Sam: The second one raised is that God says to “love your enemy.” But, God is under no obligation to love his enemies. Again, this is reasoning that hankers after the smell of a 'tulip' than the scent of 'the rose of Sharon'. To be sure – God is under NO obligation – but what does He do? The unthinkable – He loves the unlovable. God "in Christ" HAS resolved the "enemy" issue – that's the good news of the Gospel – He is no longer angry, He has no more enemies. In the Parousia whatever enemies were left were dealt with, the very LAST ENEMY we are told was "DEATH" itself; that pretty much covers ALL other enemies from God's perspective – there can be nothing beyond "the last". Therefore, IF as we teach the last enemy to be destroyed was death [1Cor 15:26], then regardless of what you, I or anybody else thinks or reasons – God has no more enemies!!.
Having made peace through the blood of Christ's Cross, God has reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to Himself [Col 1:20]. So even if in the ignorance or arrogance of some men's feeble minds they consider themselves "enemies of God", from HIS perspective they are not; Paul affirms this:
Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled…
IF God as the inspired Paul says, has made peace through Christ, then to further quote Paul: "O man who are you…" to question His will?
Sam: How can a God who loves as much as some say that he does turn around and condemn a person
Read the rest of this comment... |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by paul (freebird@comcast.net) on Saturday, September 02 @ 06:37:06 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Sam,
The necessity is always, in all generations, for Christians to proclaim the absolute sovereignty of God. Thank you.
The fact is that large numbers of Christians cannot tolerate the thought. Too often, Christians who reason from a Reformed perspective simply "preach to the choir" and Christians who oppose predestination "preach to the choir".
Whatever else can be said of Planet Preterist, it is a truth that Christians have been invited to a serious and vigorous discussion, outside of our comfort zones. At least, as they say, we're not "preaching to the choir". God bless you, Brother Sam, as well, as those many, many, Planet Preterist contributors who strongly oppose this view.
I have discovered this: when mature Christians engage in discussions about the sovereignty of God, good things result, after the dust settles. Thanks again.
Paul Richard Strange, Sr.
dadprs@hotmail.com |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by jmarvin on Monday, September 04 @ 08:28:59 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Hi and thank you for the article.
Your comment: "Similarly, some have the idea that God cannot do or break commandments that he gives to men. But, these ideas are rooted in freewill philosophy, of which Kant was."
Now I can't speak of Kant's freewill philosophy which I've not studied but this comment does raise some questions.
1) If God can and does (?) break commandments which He himself has given to men then on what basis when we proclaim the "good news" can we suggest that God is utterly faithful?
2) Could not one suggest that since God gives eternal life to all those that believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, (once saved always saved), watch out because God can break his "commandment" (Covenant)? Can one every be sure if one believes that God can deny Himself?
3) Concerning Preterism, could not one extrapolate from this idea that God can break His own commandments to men by saying that what Preterists have come to understand about God's ability to tell time and communicate it accurately to men (prophetic time statements)is easily defeated because God can deny what He has established in reference to "time statements." Again how is one to be sure of anything prophetically?
4)Are thre any Scriptures that indicate that God has broken His own commandments to men? I would like to look at them to get a more fuller understanding of what is meant by the idea that God can (and maybe has) broken His own commandments to men?
I admit that these may be very simplistic questions and possibly ignorant ones. Yet they are mine and I would appreciate your thoughts.
Blessings,
jmarvin |
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Re: Consider The Kindness of God (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Tuesday, September 05 @ 04:12:40 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | It says in the word "The soul that sins shall die" not the soul that's born a sinner shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins which he has committed, and keep all My statutes, and do justice and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he has done, they shall not be mentioned to him; in his righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked? says the Lord Jehovah. Is it not that he should turn from his ways and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turns from his righteousness and does injustice, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked do, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be remembered; in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die.
Eze 18:25 Yet you say, The way of Jehovah is not fair. Hear now, O house of Israel: Is not My way fair? Are your ways not unfair?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and dies in them; for his iniquity that he has done, he shall die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked turns away from his wickedness that he has committed and does that which is lawful and righteous, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he looks carefully, and turns away from all his sins that he has committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet says the house of Israel: The way of Jehovah is not fair. O house of Israel, are not My ways fair? Are not your ways unfair?
Eze 18:30 So I will judge you, O house of Israel, each one of you according to his ways, says the Lord Jehovah. Turn and be made to turn from all your sins; and iniquity shall not be your stumbling-block.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your sins by which you have sinned; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no delight in the death of him who dies, says the Lord Jehovah. Therefore turn and live.
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