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What was the appearance of God the Father? Like that of a man...God has the likeness of fingers and hands and a face. -- Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Benny Hinn, Word, 1991) p. 82 |
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News: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran
Posted on Thursday, August 24 @ 08:53:01 PDT by John |
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Israel is carefully watching the world's reaction to Iran's continued refusal to suspend uranium enrichment, with some high-level officials arguing it is now clear that when it comes to stopping Iran, Israel "may have to go it alone," The Jerusalem Post has learned.
One senior source said on Tuesday that Iran "flipped the world the bird" by not responding positively to the Western incentive plan to stop uranium enrichment. He expressed frustration that the Russians and Chinese were already saying that Iran's offer of a "new formula" and willingness to enter "serious negotiations" was an opening to keep on talking.
"The Iranians know the world will do nothing," he said. "This is similar to the world's attempts to appease Hitler in the 1930s - they are trying to feed the beast."
He said there was a need to understand that "when push comes to shove," Israel would have to be prepared to "slow down" the Iranian nuclear threat by itself.
Having said this, he did not rule out the possibility of US military action, but said that if this were to take place, it would probably not occur until the spring or summer of 2008, a few months before President George W. Bush leaves the international stage. The US presidential elections, which Bush cannot contest because of term limits, are in November 2008.
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, in a meeting in Paris with French Foreign Minister Phillippe Douste-Blazy Wednesday, said Iran "poses a global threat" and needed to be dealt with by the whole international community.
"The first thing they need to do is stop the enrichment of uranium," Livni said. "Everyday that passes brings the Iranians closer to building a nuclear bomb. The world can't afford a nuclear Iran." She said the Iranian reply to the Western incentives was just an attempt to "gain time."
Government officials said Israel's role at this time is to warn the world of the dangers of an Iranian nuclear potential. Some government officials are sending the message to their counterparts abroad that the firm implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701 on Lebanon will send a strong message to Iran - which is testing the world's resolve - that it is serious about implementing Security Council resolutions.
Meanwhile, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) reported Wednesday that the Iranian news service Al-Borz, which it said is known to have access to sources in the Iranian government, predicted that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would announce what the news service called Iran's "nuclear birth" on the first anniversary of his government later this month.
In addition, an article Tuesday on the Teheran Times Web site, considered to be affiliated with the Foreign Ministry, implied that Iran's nuclear technology had already reached the point of no return. "If the West is seeking to impede Iran's nuclear industry, it should realize that Iran has passed this stage," the report read.
Diplomats from Europe, the US, Russia and China were poring over details of Iran's counterproposal to the Western nuclear incentives package Wednesday. Initial comments from Russia and China made clear Washington is likely to face difficulty getting at least those nations to agree to any tough sanctions against Iran.
In Paris, however, Douste-Blazy made clear that his government was sticking by the UN demand for Iran to halt enrichment by the end of this month as a precondition to further talks. Israeli officials said France has consistently advocated a firm position with Iran regarding the nuclear issue.
Click here to read the entire article
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Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Thursday, August 24 @ 10:29:52 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | I think Bush should send in John Kerry to show Kerry's superior negociation skills. Of course then Iran would have all of our money AND a nuclear bomb, but it would sure be entertaining.
Seriously though, I've followed politics for 20 years, and I've never really thought that the US would suffer a nuclear attack. I do now.
I don't know which city will get hit. My guess is Phoenix, being close to the border with a liberal dem governor.
Though anti-war, the liberal mindset allowed a little payback after 9/11 so that we could get Iraq. After a few months they *felt* better and rallied against the war. The only way they will allow another payback is when a bunch of us die.
My theory, then: We get nuked, then get a pass from liberals to take out Iraq, although by that time they will have shared the wealth with other rogue nations. I wish we could realize that liberals are nothing more than American insurgents.
-Dana |
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- by paul on Thursday, August 24 @ 11:19:38 PDT
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- by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Thursday, August 24 @ 16:34:21 PDT
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Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Thursday, August 24 @ 11:48:51 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Isreals Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says, "The world can't afford a nuclear Iran". It's more true to say Israel can't afford a nuclear Iran.
It is doubtful to me that Iran would attack this nation with a nuclear weapon knowing that we would counterattack with a nuclear arsenal and turn Iran into a "sand box" in the middle east.
Richard............ |
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- by mazuur on Thursday, August 24 @ 12:13:35 PDT
- by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Thursday, August 24 @ 15:56:44 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Thursday, August 24 @ 18:57:02 PDT
- by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Friday, August 25 @ 08:14:38 PDT
- by Virgil on Thursday, August 24 @ 12:13:52 PDT
Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by leslie on Thursday, August 24 @ 14:50:03 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | The internal strife is ripping Israel apart from the inside out. With so much division, this is one of the few ways to get the peoples minds off of each other, with in the country, by finding an enemy 'on the outside' that is trying to destroy them...
Kind of sounds like the war happy Bush Whitehouse. 'remember 9/11...so 'we' must attack Iraq...'before 'they' attack 'us'. I just don't know if 'the', 'us'... is U.S. or 'Israel'?
I guess by Washingtons view point, 'we' are just an 'outpost' of 'the promised land'.... |
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"dumb, stupid animals" (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Thursday, August 24 @ 16:04:35 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | After Vietnam, Henry Kissinger said, "Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy"
We are on the verge of the MegaConflict I have been writing about since 2000. Watch carefully as nation after nation is dragged into a huge war. Israel may start it but plenty of other blood will be spilled before it is finished.
The following quote comes from Albert Pike in 1871. Pike was influential in the Masonic Lodge and wrote "Morals and Dogma". Note the date he wrote it and the players.
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
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Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by Islamaphobe on Thursday, August 24 @ 18:42:10 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Given the fact that both Russia and China seem content to support the present government of Iran, I can't see diplomacy leading to any solution that is acceptable to this nation. We and the Israelis are going to have to go it alone, with perhaps some nominal support from a few other nations. Bush is in a tough spot because there is no way that the Democrats will support preemptive action against Iran. He has to try to wait until after the elections in November unless the government of Iran is stupid enough to take some action that swings public opinion here against it, and it may be that stupid. The policies that the Democrats favor would require us to wait until we and/or Israel have been hit by a nuclear strike or strikes, which they can then blame on Bush. I am not saying that the Democrats want such an outcome, only that their ideas and actions may lead to it. It doesn't help that much of the CIA and the State Department are at odds with taking a tough stance against Iran.
I believe that some of the mullahs and the military bigwigs in Iran do not really believe in the twelfth Imam nonsense and are going along with Ahmadinejad and the really true believers among the ruling clergy because they don't think we are able to act against them. I hope our government is capable of proving them wrong by starting with an all-out naval embargo that would prevent Iran from importing anything by sea. And we can the Chinese that if they love the government of Iran so much, they can do without Iranian oil. We need to dance along a little more with "diplomacy" before resorting to this action. The bottom line is that this country is going to have to be willing to "go it alone" because we cannot afford to live with an Iranian theocracy with nuclear weapons--and we don't have to do it. After all, we and the Israelis are the countries most threatened by that theocracy.
There is apparently a great deal of unhappiness in Iran about their government. It will be interesting to see how much social unrest breaks the surface there during the next few weeks.
I remember 1938 and 1939. |
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- by chrisliv on Thursday, August 24 @ 21:08:00 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Thursday, August 24 @ 22:42:54 PDT
- by chrisliv on Thursday, August 24 @ 23:32:16 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Friday, August 25 @ 12:56:24 PDT
- by chrisliv on Friday, August 25 @ 14:40:54 PDT
- by OSTRALOA on Sunday, August 27 @ 20:38:34 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Sunday, August 27 @ 20:59:40 PDT
- by OSTRALOA on Monday, August 28 @ 11:43:49 PDT
- by EWMI on Monday, August 28 @ 04:10:07 PDT
Re: Stop Listening To Neocons, They're Crazy! (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Thursday, August 24 @ 23:42:49 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Well,
There was a relevant article that I'll post a portion of below. It kind of goes to the small bit of dialogue Islamaphobe and I exchanged above.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone
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...If Israel ever attacks Iran, it means the U.S. attacks Iran. The U.S. has to restrain Israel if it is to avoid setting fanatic against fanatic and launching a hundred or more years war.
From this standpoint, the U.S. miscalculated badly in encouraging Israel to attack Lebanon. Neocons hoped that Israel would take out Hizbullah and reduce its threat. They hoped for a widening of the war to Syria and Iran...
... The U.S. shouldn’t even contemplate allowing Israel pre-emptively to bomb Iran for any reason. This is the same as a U.S. attack. What sort of world will we have after such an event? Such an attack would be long-term suicide for Israel and mean endless war for the U.S. Unfortunately, although the U.S. military cannot rationally recommend an Israeli air strike upon Iran, this does not mean that it could not happen. The U.S. has blundered numerous times in the Middle East (and elsewhere) and can again.
Conclusion
The U.S. hasn’t appeased any country in the Middle East. It has done just the opposite. America’s missteps in the Middle East have weakened its position. All is not lost. The U.S. can stop playing the foolish neocon war game, pull back, rebuild credibility, rebuild its financial and other strengths, take a breather, tone down the rhetoric, talk with its foes, rebuild its moral stature, and play for time. This is the smart course to take, as opposed to setting the world ablaze.
The two main issues in the Middle East are oil and Israel. U.S. can buy oil without controlling the politics of the Middle East. It can deregulate energy, including nuclear energy, and resolve its energy problems without war. The Israel issue can’t be resolved as easily. Israel in its current political form is doomed. It makes no sense for the U.S. to start a world war in order to preserve Israel. It makes no sense for the Israeli tail to wag the U.S. dog. The U.S. has to control Israel. America got into this mess and only America can get out of it. America has little choice but strongly to control Israel, if it can, to control negotiations, if it can, and to lead the way in settling all the outstanding questions surrounding Israel’s existence and political nature. The alternatives are that Israel will gradually be worn down anyway and/or that the U.S. will engage in the great folly of a major war.
Every official U.S. link with and every step into a foreign country creates costs and risks for the American people. They usually are not worth it. They usually cause losses. Nowhere is this better demonstrated than in the Middle East.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rozeff/rozeff99.html |
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- by mazuur on Friday, August 25 @ 07:10:07 PDT
- by EWMI on Friday, August 25 @ 16:05:40 PDT
Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by leslie on Friday, August 25 @ 07:34:47 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | It looks as if the Israelis has been using American 'loaned' cluster bombs on the Leboneas civileans. This 'war' was planned months and months ago to 'cleanse' the area and while the 'world' looks to 'the north, more cleansing is going on in Gaza. Oh the cry of never again...never again..and who is committing genocide upon whom? And the dispensationals cry...yes..all of these 'eeevil' nations must now 'rise up againsts 'Gods' 'holy' people...
Israel will in the future use nuclear bombs on the countries around it and this 'world' (middle east) will be 'destroyed' and most dispensationalists will say the 'it' was prophecied... What then after the smoke clears and no visable and bodily return of Jesus...'I guess that 'this' was the 'wrong' 'Israel'...as 'they' did not return 'in faith'....
the whole mess is sad...sad...sad...nobody 'wins' and everyone 'loses' |
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- by EWMI on Friday, August 25 @ 16:14:15 PDT
Breaking News: Halutz names officer to prepare for possible war with Iran (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Friday, August 25 @ 18:12:41 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | From Haaretz 25 August 2006:
"In an effort to upgrade Israel's preparedness for a possible confrontation with Iran, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Dan Halutz has appointed Israel Air Force Commander Major General Elyezer Shkedy as the IDF's "campaign manager" against countries that do not border on Israel - primarily Iran."
Read The Rest:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754745.html |
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U.S. built major Iranian nuclear facility (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Saturday, August 26 @ 14:52:08 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | This Iran Thing is complicated indeed. One of the complications for US - Iran related negotiations is that Iran has had a reactor since the 60's. It was supplied by America. This article is worth reading. The into is here the link at the bottom.
By Sam Roe
Tribune staff reporter
Posted August 23 2006, 9:56 PM EDT
In the heart of Tehran sits one of Iran's most important nuclear facilities, a dome-shaped building where scientists have conducted secret experiments that could help the country build atomic bombs. It was provided to the Iranians by the United States.
The Tehran Research Reactor represents a little-known aspect of the international uproar over the country's alleged weapons program. Not only did the U.S. provide the reactor in the 1960s as part of a Cold War strategy, America also supplied the weapons-grade uranium needed to power the facility—fuel that remains in Iran and could be used to help make nuclear arms.
Read The Rest
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/chi-060823iran,0,1434982.story?coll=sfla-newsnation-front |
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Re: Israel may 'go it alone' against Iran (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Tuesday, August 29 @ 00:22:00 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Hey, EWMI,
There's a new article by Uri Avnery that I think you'll appreciate. I'll include an exerpt below. I think this thread is pretty well spent, anyway.
It is powerful on this topic, not only because he's a former Israeli Independence war hero, former Knessett member, or is a current Israeli Peace Activist, but because the article uses the metaphor of the human body and the transplanting of organs to illustrate the profoundly simple antidote to the main problem in Middle East regarding the Israeli State. But, you'll have to read the whole article to get those parts.
Peace be with you,
C. Livingstone
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"Every new Arab generation hates Israel more than the previous one."
...IN ORDER for the significance of Assad's words to become clear, they have to be viewed in a historical context.
The whole Zionist enterprise has been compared to the transplantation of an organ into the body of a human being. The natural immunity system rises up against the foreign implant, the body mobilizes all its power to reject it. The doctors use a heavy dosage of medicines in order to overcome the rejection. That can go on for a long time, sometimes until the eventual death of the body itself, including the transplant.
(Of course, this analogy, like any other, should be treated cautiously. An analogy can help in understanding things, but no more than that.)
The Zionist movement has planted a foreign body in this country, which was then a part of the Arab-Muslim space. The inhabitants of the country, and the entire Arab region, rejected the Zionist entity. Meanwhile, the Jewish settlement has taken roots and become an authentic new nation rooted in the country. Its defensive power against the rejection has grown. This struggle has been going on for 125 years, becoming more violent from generation to generation. The
last war was yet another episode.
WHAT IS our historic objective in this confrontation?
A fool will say: to stand up to the rejection with a growing dosage of medicaments, provided by America and World Jewry. The greatest fools will add: There is no solution. This situation will last forever. There is nothing to be done about it but to defend ourselves in war after war after war. And the next war is already knocking on the door.
The wise will say: our objective is to cause the body to accept the transplant as one of its organs, so that the immune system will no longer treat us as an enemy that must be removed at any price. And
if this is the aim, it must become the main axis of our efforts. Meaning: each of our actions must be judged according to a simple criterion: does it serve this aim or obstruct it?
According to this criterion, the Second Lebanon War was a disaster...
(The article may not be on Uri's own site yet, and might only be at the leftist Z-Mag site at this time.)
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=10840 |
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