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"What about those instances in which a demon manifests in a Christian? In most cases the demon entered before the believer's conversion to Christianity, and the evil spirit continued to control some part of the Christian's life because the specific occult sin was never renounced. The demon claims squatters rights."
-- Bob Larson
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Any secret preterists?
Posted on Sunday, July 30 @ 19:51:57 PDT by Virgil |
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tresclavos submitted: "How comon is undercover preterism?
I write this letter as a Christian who loves the life that his King , the once slain and resurrected Son of God, Jesus Christ allows him to live. My life is a beautiful one, full of grace, compassion, and love. God has made me his adoptive son. He has given me a family and eternal life for me and those I love. What more can a man want! So please forgive me if i choke up a little as I write that last sentence, He has done so much... even though I have done nothing to deserve it. I love Him so much because...well...He loved me first and...I guess thats it... He loved me first!
This life is transitory. I have gone through hardships here [who hasn't right?], but I feel like a hypocrite when I skip bible studies that have to do with eschatology. I know I shouldn't! I guess I am weak in this area of my life. But time and time again I skip church every time there is a bible study that has to do with eschatology because their hope of a “secret rapture” is going to be, once again, touched upon. I do not agree with this view. I see it contrary to scripture and I feel like a liar, when I am their volunteer youth worker, every time I choose to either change the subject , ignore, or skip eschatological questions or studies for fear of not being looked upon as a heretic.
You see I believe as they believe. We share a common faith. We share in the family of God. We are all part of God's Kingdom. Yet I pray that God will give me the strength to stop being a secret preterist. Because it is dishonest. My family has seen in me a man that has shown them reliance on the strength of the Lord. They live in a preterist household. The family is glad of being part of the fulfillment of God's promises. In awe of His love and Grace. I pray that God gives me the wisdom of just stating my positions without being confrontational. Of showing love at all times and not heated discussions.
Are there a lot of preterists out there that just sit at congregations and listen to futurists songs, and hymns, without joining in song. Skip futurist oriented bible lessons. Do not answer with praise when a preacher asks the good Ole “If you believe in the Rapture lets hear an AMEN!”...
I'm not one of the learned theologians that sit there sifting through knowledge and reads the ancient Greek, or can explain the rules of correct biblical exegesis. I'm just a layman. Are there a lot of secret preterits in our churches today? I hope not."
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Average Score: 5
Votes: 1
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Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
 by mrfullpreterist on Monday, July 31 @ 06:36:09 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | tresclavos,
Don't avoid songs that are futurist. Change them and make sure you sing as loud as the others when you do. For example, you could change the last part of "It Is Well With My Soul" to...
"And then came the day when our faith became sight.
The clouds were rolled back like a scroll.
The Trump did resound, and the Lord did descend.
Even so, IT IS WELL WITH MY SOUL!"
When questioned about it just ask questions that direct them to dig into the scriptures themselves. Do not make any direct assertions or statements of belief. Confront others with the Truth of Scripture in an inquisitive manner.
When asked if you believe the Lord has already come again simply say, "I can't see any other way to understand the Scriptures. Maybe you can give me a different perspective in light of what they seem to declare so emphatically."
Take care,
Rob |
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- by Virgil on Monday, July 31 @ 06:50:27 PDT
Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
 by Flakinde on Monday, July 31 @ 07:07:37 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hello Tresclavos . . . I take it from your nick that you speak Spanish, am I right? If so, and you feel this is a language you feel more comfortable speaking in, please contact me and we can talk more.
Rob offers good advice, here are a few extra points to consider:
1- Please don't fall into the trap of thinking you ARE a "preterist", and that this makes you any different than your brothers and sisters in Christ. What you ARE is a son of God, period, just like any other who believes Christ is Lord and King and has been raised from the dead. If the Preterist position is what you hold to, perfect, you will also find that most of your brothers and sisters also hold to different positions in one way or another. Holding to the Preterist position does nothing to your ontology nor your standing before God.
2- I understand you are feeling tensions in your current congregation, and understandably so. I am also serving in a futurist congregation, but I have renounced feeling the pressure to "state my position", especially where I know it will not be welcome. Sometimes it is wise to be silent, there is nothing dishonest nor hypocritical about it, especially when you know that you might hurt someone in a certain context or environment. Truth without love is useless.
3- I have been content to share my opinions with those who are open to listen in common love, and this includes the pastor of the congregation. If you think you can do the same, you might consider that.
4- Something else that has helped me is that, even though I do not "state my position" directly, whenever I have a chance to speak or sing, I do so from a fulfilled covenantal standpoint. I have noticed that my brothers and sisters rejoice, and not as a surprise, as I believe that at the core we all know and understand fulfillment, only that many have placed obstacles in the way, which only create inconsistencies; however, Christ's fulfilled kingdom and presence is at the very foundation of every believer's faith. I don't care if the person who grabs the mic after me speaks from another point of view, the Lord will make true the testimony of whomever has the truth, and is sovereign to open their eyes in His timing, as I believe He did with me.
Let me know if I can help in any other way, blessed in His rest,
Alexander Rodríguez |
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- by Ozark on Monday, July 31 @ 07:27:01 PDT
Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
 by Virgil on Monday, July 31 @ 07:11:25 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | tresclavos - I would say that there are many undercover preterists out there, but I can't judge people for not "coming out" - everyone has unique circumstances to deal with: family disagreements, life-long friend, fear of being excommunicated or publicly humiliated. Also some people do not like being in the spotlight so they would rather be quiet about it and just not deal with the publicity.
It's a tough thing to deal with, but I believe that with the rise of postmodernism, and the popularity of mainstream teachers like Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, Preterism is taking its place in mainstream Christianity. Books like Andrew Perriman's The Coming of the Son of Man and Gary DeMar's books can be found in most Christian bookstores, so what was once in the dark is now coming to the surface.
Speaking personally, my personality would never allow me to be oppressed and quiet about something so important like Covenant Eschatology, nor would I ever allow other people to dictate how to live my life and how to profess my faith. But that's just me :) We are all different and unique... |
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- by UncleJesse on Monday, July 31 @ 11:13:35 PDT
- by Virgil on Monday, July 31 @ 12:13:57 PDT
- by UncleJesse on Monday, July 31 @ 14:42:44 PDT
- by psychohmike on Tuesday, August 01 @ 18:01:13 PDT
- by UncleJesse on Tuesday, August 01 @ 20:43:54 PDT
Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
by ElAngelMiguel on Tuesday, August 01 @ 08:10:55 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | TresClavos, you may be surprise of how many preterist (in all forms) are in the local churches today (as well as other places).
Listen, I am a former pre-trib dispensational bible institute/seminary professor. In my 5th year teaching, I began to realize that there was something wrong with my dispensational-view. So, I began to encourage my students to search for themselves and be open to the fact that there may be a different view that we may have not considered.
Do you know how to spell trouble in a pre-trib (Spanish) seminary (Favor de resignar/Please resign). Of course, it got a bit ugly, because even though I (and another teacher) were willing to resign, the students did not want us to do so. Finally, we did leave and a year later the bible institute/seminary was closed.
Although, I am not a proponent of labels, I can be considered a partial-preterist. However, I must always warn believers that ask me about my faith that is not only my eschatology that has changed. Rather, there are other traditional teachings that we have held dear in our congregations that I have found are not supported by the scriptures (that's another story).
By the way, I have been in fellowship with a Messianic congregation (on and off) for about a year or so, and I have the strangest feeling that they may be pre-trib??? I would not be surprise, since I have found that other Messianic Jews, like Zola Levitt, who recently passed on, and Sid Roth are pre-tribs, and many have come out from the AOG congregations and are influenced by their eschatology.
Hey, I hope this helps...just hold on to the faith and ask the Father to lead you to others who believe and may also be hiding and feeling the same as you. Like I said, you may just be surprised. Yahweh-shalom. |
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- by Virgil on Tuesday, August 01 @ 13:24:05 PDT
Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
 by psychohmike (imapreterist before the @ and gmail.com after it) on Tuesday, August 01 @ 18:16:31 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | I've been a closet preterist for a long time. I haven't come bursting out of the closet just yet but the door has been open for a long time. As far as being a heretic. I could care less what people think. On the other hand my household income is based on my keeping myself quiet. I work for a very large, very futurist ministry. Like I said, the door to my preterist closet has been open for a long time now and people here know that I am a preterist. Even people that have the power of making my job go away. Aside from a few close friends I don't preach what I believe. I'm not out trying to convert people to my point of view. And maybe that is wrong. I don't know. What I do know is that I love these people that I work with and I also love this ministry that I work for. I don't agree with what they teach but I don't feel that it is my place to be confrontational.
I know at this point in time that I have simply been called to give an answer for why I believe what I do. An answer is something that you give in exchange for a question. I'm not here to subvert someones ministry. God has brought me to this point for some reason. I'm not totally sure what that is just yet but until I figure that out I am going to continue to study to show myself approved.
Mike 8) |
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- by leslie on Wednesday, August 02 @ 10:28:51 PDT
Re: Any secret preterists? (Score: 1)
by rusureofit on Friday, August 04 @ 16:41:54 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | James 1:2-5
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
1 Peter 1:6-9
6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
What do these two passages have in common? James and Peter where both writing to believers who were being tested by God to strengthen their faith. Count it all Joy that you too are being tested, it can only strengthen your faith. After all what is the difference between what the disciples were dealing with 20 or 30 years after Christ's crucifixion, and what you are dealing with today? They taught that Christ's death and resurrection was the fulfillment of prophecy, and they were persecuted and called heretics for it.... Today when you tell people that Christ has fulfilled all prophecy, many people in the church will persecute you for that statement. No different than what the Jews did to Jesus and the disciples in the first century. Only today they can't get away with stoning or beheading you! Count it all Joy!
Remember what Jesus said "father forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing". And He also gave us this command in Matthew 10:27; "What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops." How can we keep quiet? Try not to antagonize people with what you believe. Learn to ask the right questions to make people think about what they believe. Jesus asked questions like: "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" and then He would look directly at someone and ask "Who do you say that I am?" A good book to read is "Give Me This Mountain" by Timothy R. King. His family faced the same problems as you describe. Don't give up! If the disciples had given up none of us would have been saved! AL |
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