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I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is…The biggest one in the whole Bible is God…I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least - that's a big loss, man…. -- Kenneth Copeland, Praise-a-thon on Praise The Lord, April 1988 |
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News: Middle East on the brink of war
Posted on Monday, July 03 @ 16:04:17 PDT by Virgil |
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Israel will continue its ongoing military operation against Hamas as if there were no ultimatum, and has warned key international players that the military action will be escalated if Cpl. Gilad Shalit is killed, according to government officials.
One senior official in the Prime Minister's Office said Monday that the IDF's ongoing military operation will not be impacted by the ultimatum issued by Shalit's captors on Monday - which Israel rejected - to begin releasing Palestinian prisoners by 6 a.m. Tuesday, or the captors would consider the Shalit "case to be closed."
The ultimatum triggered warnings by various cabinet ministers of fierce Israeli action if Shalit were harmed.
"If, God forbid, they should hurt the soldier, our operations will be far worse," Justice Minister Haim Ramon told Channel 2. Interior Minister Roni Bar-On told Y-Net that "the kidnappers will pay a price they have not yet paid if they harm the soldier."
In Moscow, meanwhile, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, during a 90-minute meeting with Russian President Vladimr Putin that was dominated by this crisis, said there was a "potential for regional deterioration" unless the international community applied pressure "decisively and immediately." Similar messages, according to diplomatic officials, were passed on during the day to Washington and to various European capitals.
Livni, according to sources in her office, said that Syrian President Bashar Assad and Damascus-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal were the main actors behind the scenes, and needed to be the focus of international pressure.
Defense Minister Amir Peretz also continued shining the spotlight on Syria, telling a Labor faction meeting in the Knesset Monday, "We suggest that Assad, who is trying to operate with his eyes shut, open his eyes, because he is responsible. We will know how to strike those who are involved."
Shalit's captors gave Israel a 24-hour ultimatum to start releasing some 1,500 prisoners, and implied that they would kill him if he was not released. Later Monday they said they would issue another announcement when that ultimatum expired.
"We give the Zionist enemy until 6:00 tomorrow morning, Tuesday, July 4," the three groups that seized Shalit said in a statement posted on a Hamas Web site and faxed to news agencies.
If Israel doesn't comply with the demands, "we will consider the soldier's case to be closed," the statement said, an apparent reference to killing him. "And then the enemy must bear all the consequences of the future results."
Abu Obeida, a spokesman for the Hamas military wing, said Israel must at least begin freeing the women and minors.
"Israel must understand that the resistance factions are serious in this matter. They will close this case if [Israel] doesn't deal with the demands," he said, adding that there would be no compromise.
The government, however, unequivocally rejected the demands.
Following consultations with top security officials, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert issued a statement that read, "Israel will not give in to extortion by the Palestinian Authority and the Hamas government, which are led by murderous terrorist organizations. We will not conduct any negotiations on the release of prisoners. The Palestinian Authority bears full responsibility for the welfare of Gilad Shalit and for returning him safe and sound to Israel."
Israeli intelligence officials said the ultimatum was likely issued Monday morning because the kidnappers feared they would be discovered and that the IDF would launch a hostage retrieval operation.
Since Shalit's abduction last Sunday, the IDF has said he is in the Gaza Strip but has said it did not know his exact location. According to intelligence experts, the longer the standoff in Gaza continues, the easier it would be to locate the kidnappers and their hideaway.
Livni, who spoke with Olmert before meeting Putin and is in close consultation with the prime minister, spoke at length about the agony of Shalit's family, the killing last week of Eliahu Asheri and the situation in Sderot. She also met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russia's Security Council head Igor Ivanov.
During these talks, according to her office, Livni said that Israel had shown restraint up until now, but that it would "not put up with the situation much longer."
At a press conference after meeting Lavrov, Livni, in an apparent jibe at Russia for meeting with Hamas representatives soon after they won the Palestinian Legislative Council elections in January, said, "If someone still had any doubts about the character of Hamas, the recent events have demonstrated that the government claims responsibility for terrorist attacks and strives to conduct negotiations concerning those terrorist attacks with Israel."
"Elections are not some kind of a washing machine whereby a terrorist organization can wash itself. Terror is terror," she said.
The Kremlin issued a statement saying that Putin had called Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas after the Livni meeting, and that the Russian president said Moscow "will do everything in its power to promote the swiftest possible normalization of the situation in the Palestinian territories." Lavrov, meanwhile, called for Shalit's release and an end to attacks on Israeli cities, while urging Israel to show restraint in its offensive in Gaza.
"The main thing now is to have the Israeli soldier freed. We are trying to facilitate this through every channel we have," Lavrov said at a press conference after meeting Livni.
Lavrov said it was necessary to "by all means stop the spiral of violence, which requires restraint and wisdom."
The EU, meanwhile, issued a statement Monday saying that said it was "extremely concerned about the situation which has evolved over the last days between Israel and the Palestinians and calls on all parties to abstain from any actions that are in violation of international law. It calls for the immediate and unconditional release of the kidnapped Israeli soldier."
The statement condemned Asheri's murder and called on the Palestinians to end terrorism and rocket fire on Israel. At the same time, it expressed its "particular concern about the detention of elected members of the Palestinian government and legislature. Those detained should be accorded their full legal rights."
The statement also "reminds all parties of their responsibility to protect civilian lives. Notwithstanding Israel's legitimate right of self-defense, ongoing military operations should be in accordance with international law."
The statement called on Israel "to exercise the utmost restraint and to avoid disproportionate action." It also regretted "the destruction of essential infrastructure, which contributes to the deterioration of the humanitarian situation in Gaza. Restoring electricity and water supplies and access for humanitarian organizations must be a priority now to avoid a humanitarian crisis."
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Re: The Realization And Humiliation Of The Victim Becoming The Abuser (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Monday, July 03 @ 17:03:44 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Yeah,
In 1948 the Zionist Europeans razed about 400 Palestinian towns, and have practiced a chronic campaign of land seizures, water resource thefts, and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinians ever since the Israeli State was declared.
Maybe the Israeli Final Soultion for the Palestinians in Gaza will be similar to the Nazi Final Soultion for European Jewery at Auszwitz. I mean, Gaza is arguably the largest Concentration Camp in human history. I'm sure that Israeli generals are, right now, talking about the stategy to provoke an existential crisis among Palestinains by a full-scale invasion by Israeli forces into Gaza, so as to cause a resistance which would give the Israeli State the seeming justification to annihilate a large number of Palestinian men, women, and children which using a lot of US provided missiles, fighter jets, and helicopters.
Not that it is any justification for Palestinian terrorism, but for every death and murder that we hear in the Media being perpetrated by Palestinian militants and terrorists against Israelis, there are about five times as deaths and terrorist murders being perpetrated by Israeli State personnel.
So, it is not a symetrical conflict. The Israelis are the hostile immigrants and interloppers who've obtained massive US funds and a Middle Eastern monopoly on nuclear weapons of mass destruction. Yet, the Israeli Jews are very quick to try to portray themselves as the Victim here.
No, the Zionists were the earliest terrorists in Palestine, and continue to be the premier terrorists in that arena.
That's why most Jews around the globe refuse to emmigrate or accept the freely offered Israeli citizenship (to Jews only) in that hostile State. Even Albert Einstein refused to be the first Israeli President, which was not unlike when Christ Jesus, 2000 years ago, refused to the offer to be made a hostile and outward King over Judea.
No, the tragic drama that we see has nothing to do with long ago fulfilled prophecy, it is simply the large-scale portrayal of the Victim becoming the Abuser.
That's quite a humiliation for many Israeli Jews (not Jews in general), don't you think?
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone |
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Re: Middle East on the brink of war (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Monday, July 03 @ 21:06:35 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Gee,
There's an interesting quote in this article:
"Abu Obeida, a spokesman for the Hamas military wing, said Israel must at least begin freeing the women and minors."
It's terribly commonplace how North American mainstream media sources never want to explain about possible Israeli abuses or atrocities.
I wonder what the exact number is for these Palestinian women and children that the Israeli State seems to be holding hostage? Or, are they somehow classified as terrorists or collaborators themselves?
Could some of these women and children be family members of the 1500 other prisoners Hamas is seeking to have released? If so, that would be a textbook War Crime by the Israeli State.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone |
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Re: Middle East on the brink of war (Score: 1)
by psychohmike (imapreterist before the @ and gmail.com after it) on Monday, July 03 @ 22:03:48 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | I think someone got their hands on a copy of "Blood Brothers" by Elias Chacour.
If not it is a MUST READ. |
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Re: Some Good Jewish Israeli Journalism (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Monday, July 03 @ 23:14:18 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Yeah,
There's a couple of Jewish Israeli journalists that I know of who give great perspective on Israeli-Palestinian matters, like Uri Avnery of Gush Shalom, and Gideon Levy who usually writes for Haaretz. The exerpts below are from a recent Levy article.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone
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"...The legitimate basis for the IDF's operation was stripped away the moment it began. It's no accident that nobody mentions the day before the attack on the Kerem Shalom fort, when the IDF kidnapped two civilians, a doctor and his brother, from their home in Gaza. The difference between us and them? We kidnapped civilians and they captured a soldier, we are a state and they are a terror organization. How ridiculously pathetic Amos Gilad sounds when he says that the capture of Shalit was "illegitimate and illegal," unlike when the IDF grabs civilians from their homes. How can a senior official in the defense ministry claim that "the head of the snake" is in Damascus, when the IDF uses the exact same methods?..."
Or:
"A black flag hangs over the "rolling" operation in Gaza. The more the operation "rolls," the darker the flag becomes. The "summer rains" we are showering on Gaza are not only pointless, but are first and foremost blatantly illegitimate. It is not legitimate to cut off 750,000 people from electricity. It is not legitimate to call on 20,000 people to run from their homes and turn their towns into ghost towns. It is not legitimate to penetrate Syria's airspace. It is not legitimate to kidnap half a government and a quarter of a parliament..."
"...The only wise and restrained voice heard so far was that of the soldier's father, Noam Shalit, of all people. That noble man called at what is clearly his most difficult hour, not for stridency and not for further damage done to the lives of soldiers and innocent Palestinians. Against the background of the IDF's unrestrained actions and the arrogant bragging of the latest macho spokesmen, Maj. Gen. Yoav Gallant of the Southern Command and Maj. Gen. (res.) Amos Gilad, Shalit's father's voice stood out like a voice crying in the wilderness.
"Sending tens of thousands of miserable inhabitants running from their homes, dozens of kilometers from where his son is supposedly hidden, and cutting off the electricity to hundreds of thousands of others, is certainly not what he meant in his understated emotional pleas. It's a shame nobody is listening to him, of all people..."
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Re: Middle East on the brink of war (Score: 1)
by Islamaphobe on Tuesday, July 04 @ 07:01:39 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | I was going to let this one pass by without comment, but since ChrisLiv has decorated the site with extensive misleading comments, I shall offer a short expression of an alternative viewpoint. As the existence of the newspaper Haaretz demonstrates, Israel is a democracy and does allow expressions of opinion from the left that portray the Palestinians as victims of Israeli terrorism, etc. You will not find the equivalent of Haaretz in such nations as Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, and you sure won't find it in Gaza.
In my judgment, for what it's worth, the biggest problem we have in the West in dealing with our Islamist enemies is that so many of us on the liberal/left side of the political spectrum play along with the victimology game that has brought the Palestinians and Arabs to their present high state of development and paranoia. We all know what terror is, if we are intellectually honest, and it is time that we quit pretending that we who represent Western civilization, including the Israelis, are practicing it with abandon upon helpless Moslems. Give me the proverbial break!
John S. Evans |
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- by mazuur on Tuesday, July 04 @ 12:44:30 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Tuesday, July 04 @ 22:40:10 PDT
Re: Middle East on the brink of war (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Tuesday, July 04 @ 09:00:58 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Gee, Islamaphobe,
The decorating was to draw some exchange, since the website seems a little slow lately. Thanks for being a good sport.
But, if I've made "extensive misleading statements" within the short span of the above three posts, you should be able to list at least four or five of those so-called "extensive misleading statements" for everyone to see, unless you just have a habit of falsely calling everything you don't like to hear as "misleading" because it is an uncomfortable truth or reality that you are affraid people will find out.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone |
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- by Islamaphobe on Tuesday, July 04 @ 12:01:29 PDT
Re: Middle East on the brink of war (Score: 1)
by leslie on Wednesday, July 05 @ 10:41:36 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | | Islamaphobe, you slam chrislive with your saying that he has made 'extensive misleading comments' and now you say that you have better 'things' to do that respond. Seems like you inflame with rehteric and then walk away. Israel is not a very good Democracy and neither will Iraq be. The only solution for Israel is a One State solution. they will all live together or die together. |
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- by chrisliv on Wednesday, July 05 @ 22:49:52 PDT
- by Islamaphobe on Thursday, July 06 @ 21:42:12 PDT
- by chrisliv on Thursday, July 06 @ 23:37:01 PDT
Re: Lind Article: To Be Or Not To Be A State? (Score: 1)
by chrisliv on Wednesday, July 05 @ 23:46:36 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | FYI,
There is an interesting and new article by the bright millitary stratagist and trainer, William Lind, over at lewrockwell.com about the Gaza Strip crisis. I'll include some clips below.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone
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Hamas may have presumed that once it won a free election, other states, including the United States and Israel, would have to recognize its legitimacy. Great expectations are seldom fulfilled in the amoral world of international politics. When the Washington Establishment calls for "free elections," what it means is elections that elect the people it wants to deal with. Hamas does not fall into that category. Washington therefore greeted Hamas’s electoral victory with a full-court press to destroy the new Hamas leadership of the Palestinian Authority, a "state" that bears a state’s burdens with none of a state’s assets. Both Machiavelli and Metternich were no doubt delighted by this act of Wilsonian hypocrisy, a variety that often exceeds their own and does so with a straight face, an act they could never quite master, being gentlemen.
In cooperation with Israel (can Washington now do anything except in cooperation with Israel?) the U.S. imposed a starvation blockade on the Palestinian territories. Instead of British armored cruisers, the blockaders this time are U.S. banking laws, plus Israeli-withholding of Palestinian tax receipts. As the government of a quasi-state, Hamas found itself with no money. PA employees went unpaid and PA services, such as they were, largely collapsed. The burden, as always, fell on average Palestinians.
There is, however, another way out for Hamas. It can call and raise Washington’s and Tel Aviv's bets. How? By voting to dissolve the Palestinian Authority. Ending the PA would dump the Palestinian territories and their inhabitants right back in Israel’s lap. Under international law, as the occupying power, Israel would be responsible for everything in the territories: security, human services, utilities and infrastructure, the economy, the whole megillah (oy!). Israel could try to restore the PA in cooperation with Fatah, but if Fatah joined Israel in doing so, it would destroy what legitimacy it has left. Hamas could meanwhile return to a 4GW war against Israel, unencumbered with the dubious assets of a state, and with lots more targets as Israel attempted to run the Palestinian Territories itself. |
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[No Subject] (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Friday, July 07 @ 00:14:43 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | In the same way that America created radical Islam in the 70's Israel funded the precursor to Hamas. Looks like blowback.
Here is the quote from the title and the link:
The detention of Hamas parliamentarians in the early hours of Thursday morning had been planned several weeks ago and received approval from Mazuz on Wednesday. The same day, Shin Bet Director Yuval Diskin presented Prime Minister Ehud Olmert with the list of Hamas officials slated for detention.
Full Article Here:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732528.html |
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