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One day in the Tribulation Period you will need proper identification to withdraw or deposit money in your bank. The identification will be an invisible mark either on the back of your hand or on you forehead!
-- Salem Kirban
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A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible
Posted on Wednesday, May 24 @ 19:41:03 PDT by Virgil |
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Seeker submitted: "This is an attempt to bring some clarification to all of the unproven and misleading theories on the personhood of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God. Please read and prayerfully consider what is written herein and approach it with an open mind. The scriptures used throughout are from the NASB, but please feel free to look them up using any version you like. I pray that God will help you to truly KNOW the Messiah, the Son of God.
Shouldn’t we know our Savior? The One who redeemed us unto eternal life and shed His blood for us? But how can we know Him if we have the wrong perception of who or what He actually is? How can we be like Him as we’re commanded to, if we think He’s something He’s not? In order to know Christ we must first lay the groundwork of knowing who or what God is.
1. How Many Gods or Persons within God?
Let’s see what the Old Testament says:
Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isaiah 43:10, Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
Isaiah 44:6, …there is no God besides Me.
Isaiah 45:5, "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God…
Isaiah 46:9, For I am God, and there is no other; {I am} God, and there is no one like Me,
Let’s see what the New Testament says:
Mark 10:18, And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mark 12:29, Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
John 5:44, "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the {one and} only God?
John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
1 Corinthians 8:6, yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him.
1 Timothy 2:5, For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus,
The Jews of Jesus time, and apparently the Jesus and Paul (from the scriptures above), thought God was one being; it was the bedrock of their faith. As Anthony Buzzard states in his book 1The Doctrine of the Trinity – Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound, “Not once do we find Jesus criticizing his fellow countrymen for holding an inadequate understanding of the number of persons in the Godhead.” If there is only one God (and according to the above mentioned scriptures there is), then who is this one God?
Let’s see what the Old Testament says:
NOTE: we must remember that when the Old Testament uses LORD in all capital letters, it is a place where the Tetragrammaton (YHVH or YHWH - Yahweh) was used in the original.
As quoted earlier:
Deuteronomy 6:4, "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isaiah 45:5, "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God…
So YHVH (LORD) is the one true God. There are many, many examples from the Old Testament, but for the sake of space and time these two should suffice. They clearly say that YHVH (LORD) is the only God.
Let’s see what the New Testament says:
Mark 12:29, Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD (YHVH) OUR GOD IS ONE LORD (YHVH);
Since Jesus quotes Deut. 6:4 in Matthew it is clear that the one God – YHVH in the Old Testament is the same one God in the New Testament. As we have already quoted, Jesus said the following, in John, while praying to the Father:
John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
And Paul says:
1 Corinthians 8:6, yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him.
John and Paul in 1 Corinthians tell us who this one God – YHVH – is; He is the Father. So the Father in the New Testament is synonymous with YHVH in the Old Testament. Both Testaments say that YHVH, or the Father, is the ONLY God.
Some will say “I thought Jesus was God the Son”? No, the Bible says Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man (“God the Son” is a term invented by men and is not found in the Bible). He is the Son of Man because His mother was Mary (human, mankind), and He is the Son of God because His father was God.
Granted, many beings are called god: Angels, OT judges, Moses, Jesus, Satan, etc, but not in the sense that John means it in the above passage. Did this make them co-equal with God?
Was Christ co-equal with God while on earth or was He subordinate to God while on earth? Most people would say he was subordinate simply because the evidence in scripture is overwhelming, but while many would say He was subordinate, a good portion of these would also add that “His human side was subordinate – not His God side”. Is this splitting of Christ’s nature into a “God” side and a “human” side Biblical - separating Jesus into two parts? Here is an interesting scripture:
1 John 4:2, By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
An ancient text for 1John 4:1-2 is reconstructed from Irenaeus (Ch. 16:8, ANF, Vol. 1, fn. p. 443); it gives a slightly different reading:
Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth Jesus Christ came in the flesh is of God; and every spirit which separates Jesus Christ is not of God but is of antichrist.
Socrates the historian says (VII, 32, p. 381) that this passage (from Irenaeus) is the true reading and that it became corrupted by those who wished to separate the humanity of Jesus Christ from his divinity. Is this separation Biblical?
Let’s see what the scriptures say about His position while on earth:
Matthew 20:23, …but to sit on My right and on {My} left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father."
Matthew 26:39,…"My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."
Matthew 26:53, "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Mark 10:18, And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mark 13:32, "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father {alone.}
Mark 15:34, Jesus cried out with a loud voice… "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
John 4:34, Jesus *said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
John 5:19, …"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless {it is} something He sees the Father doing…
John 5:20, "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing…
John 5:22, "For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,
John 5:26, "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
John 5:30, "I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
John 5:36, "But the testimony which I have is greater than {the testimony of} John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 7:16, So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 7:28, Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, "You both know Me and know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
John 8:26, …but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world."
John 8:28, …and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
John 8:40, "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God...(notice he doesn’t say “which I heard from the Father” – but “God” – I thought Jesus was God?)
John 8:54, Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';
John 10:35-36, "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
John 12:49, "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment {as to} what to say and what to speak.
John 14:10, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
John 14:28, …If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
John 17:3, "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 18:11, …the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?"
No hint of a “man side” and a “God side”. We shouldn’t try and make scripture fit our doctrine, but we should make our doctrine fit scripture. It is interesting that the majority of texts come from John – the one gospel that Trinitarians and others like to use to prove Jesus is God.
Let us now look to see if Christ was subordinate to the Father after His resurrection and ascension:
1 Timothy 2:5, For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus, - notice he’s still called a man after his resurrection and ascension.
1 Corinthians 8:6, yet for us there is {but} one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we {exist} for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we {exist} through Him.
1 Corinthians 11:3, But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:24,28, then {comes} the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Revelation 1:1, The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him…
Thus far we have seen that there is only ONE TRUE GOD and that this one God is YHVH of the Old Testament and the Father of the New Testament. We have seen that Jesus was subordinate to this one God both while on earth and after His resurrection and ascension. If Jesus is not the ONE TRUE GOD then what is He?
Was Jesus a pre-existent being or an angel?
If Christ was a pre-existent being above the angels, he could not have been eternal; only God is eternal. If He’s been here from sometime before the creation of the earth then why do we never hear from him or about him in the Old Testament? Some would say that we do! They would counter that He was Michael the Archangel; others would say He was the Angel of YHVH. The chances of this are so remote that we won’t consider them in too much depth other than to quote a couple of scriptures:
Hebrews 1:1-2, God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son…
1 Peter 1:20, For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.
When the Apostles in the New Testament go to such great lengths to explain to us who Jesus is, why do they not say He was Michael? Why do they not say He was the Angel of YHVH? In the beginning the Apostles didn’t understand everything Jesus was telling them, but by the time they wrote the New Testament (which I’m sure most reading this believe is inspired) they had been endowed by the Holy Spirit.
What about the passages that say Jesus created the world? Let’s look at them:
Eph. 2:10, For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Eph. 3:9, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; (the KJV has the words “by Christ Jesus” at the end of this verse, but the earliest manuscripts do not have this).
Col. 1:16, For by Him all things were created, {both} in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
The only one that says anything was created BY Christ is Col. 1:16.
Here the Greek word “en” occurs twice. The first time it is translated as “by”, and the second time it is translated as “in”. The normal use of this Greek word is “in”. This word should be translated as “in” just as it is in Eph. 2:10 and its second occurrence in Col. 1:16 by the same translators. Here it is in the Revised Standard Version (RSV):
Col. 1:16, for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.
The word that is translated as “through” in Col. 1:16 is the Greek word “dia”. It can have the meaning of “because of” or “on account of”. Jesus is the reason for all of creation – both physical and spiritual. Many reputable Greek scholars such as J.H.Moulton in Grammar of New Testament Greek say that Colossians 1:16 should be rendered “for because of him”, and the Expositor’s Greek Commentary says on this verse: “en auto: This does not mean ‘by him’”.
You’ll also notice that Col. 1:16 does not say that Christ created the Heavens and the earth. It says “in him all things were created, IN heaven and ON earth…”. It then goes on to tell us that these are thrones, dominions, principalities, and authorities. Christ was put over everything and given the authority to restructure the arrangements of spiritual powers and rankings.
I Peter 3:22, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
Eph 1:21-22, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,
Col 2:10, …He is the head over all rule and authority;
Phil 2:9-11, For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
As for Eph. 3:9, the KJV has extra wording on the end of Eph. 3:9 in which they translate the Greek word “dia” as the English word “by”, when, once again, it should be translated either as “through” or as highlighted below (if the words are really supposed to be there, which is highly doubtful), just as the NASB and RSV translators do in Col. 1:16 near the end of the verse. Here are the definitions of both words in Strong’s:
En – a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537)
-- in, by, with etc
Dia - a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act
-- through a) of place 1) with 2) in b) of time 1) throughout 2) during c) of means 1) by 2) by the means of 2) through a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done 1) by reason of 2) on account of 3) because of for this reason 4) therefore 5) on this account
Here are just a few scriptures that show God – YHVH – created everything.
Gen. 1:1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Isa. 42:5, Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,
Isa. 45:12, "It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands And I ordained all their host.
Isa. 45:18, For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it {and} did not create it a waste place, {but} formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Even if Jesus did not take part in creation did He pre-exist (can one exist before they exist)?
The Old Testament type was “a lamb from among the flock”; one without spot or blemish. Jesus had to be one of us, not God masquerading as a man who was not really “tempted in every way as we are” and who could not really die, and not some Angel or pre-existent being.
As 2J.A. Baker states:
“It simply is not possible at one and the same time to share the common lot of humanity and to be aware of oneself as one who has existed from everlasting with God”. And as stated in 3“One God and One Lord – Reconsidering the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith”:
…if Jesus were aware of being “God” in some way, or could remember his former state of glory in heaven, then his experience of earthly life would be very different from ours. Consequently, our ability to identify with both his overcoming temptation and leaving us a righteous path to follow is seriously compromised. We are then essentially left without a “mediator”, but are being asked to be like God Himself, instead of developing absolute trust in God, our heavenly Father, as Jesus did, and becoming like him as he said we could and should.
Did He pre-exist in God’s mind as the Word – Logos – Reason – Plan for everything that would happen? Yes! Did God foreknow Jesus in a very real way? Yes:
1 Peter 1:20, For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.
Here’s what Strong’s says the definition of the word “foreknown” (proginosko) is:
1) to have knowledge before hand
2) to foreknow
a) of those whom God elected to salvation
3) to predestinate
How do you foreknow someone who has always existed?
Did God foreknow us? Yes!
Romans 8:29, For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined {to become} conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Eph. 1:4, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
2 Tim. 1:9, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
God did foreknow us, but we did not pre-exist except in His heart and mind.
Did the Apostle John pre-exist?
John 1:6, There came a man sent from God, whose name was John.
We know the Apostle John did not pre-exist, but when we see this same type of wording (“sent from God”) applied to Jesus, we somehow read pre-existence into it.
2. Did/Does Jesus have a God?
Let’s see what the scriptures say:
Matt 27:46, About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" (also in Mark 15:34)
John 17:3, This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 20:17, Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' "
Some may say that Jesus made these comments in the flesh while on earth. Even though this is not a good argument – this splitting of Christ into two natures (as we have seen), this argument certainly doesn’t hold water for the remainder of these verses, which are after his Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
Romans 15:6, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1:3, Blessed {be} the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2 Cor 11:31, The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.
Eph 1:17, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
1 Peter 1:3, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Heb 1:9, "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."
Rev 1:1, The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated {it} by His angel to His bond-servant John,
Rev 1:5-6, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood-- and He has made us {to be} a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him {be} the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Rev 3:12, 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Many Trinitarians subconsciously read the word “Father” in place of God when they see Jesus and God in juxtaposition; reading their own theology back into the scriptures.
3. Was He a Man?
Let’s see what the Old Testament says:
Deut. 18:15, "The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,
Numbers 24:17-19 "I see Him, but not now;
I behold Him, but not near;
A Star shall come out of Jacob;
A Scepter shall rise out of Israel,
And batter the brow of Moab,
And destroy all the sons of *tumult.
18 "And Edom shall be a possession;
Seir also, his enemies, shall be a possession,
While Israel does valiantly.
19 Out of Jacob One shall have dominion,
And destroy the remains of the city."
II Samuel 7:12-13 "When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Isaiah 11:1-3, There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
3 His delight is in the fear of the LORD,
Isaiah 49:1-8, "...The LORD hath called me [Jesus] from the womb; from the bowels of my mother [Mary] hath he made mention of my name [Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:28-33]....in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me...And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant... to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth [referring to Christ Jesus]...have I [God] heard thee...have I [God] helped thee: and I [God] will preserve thee [Jesus, the Christ], and give thee for a covenant [New Testament]..."
Jer. 23:5, "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
"That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
The following verse in Daniel is a prophecy of the future ascension of Jesus to God to receive his dominion and glory. Daniel is seeing this vision from a Heavenly point of view; hence the “coming with the clouds of heaven” is actually a vision of Jesus’ coming to the Father after His resurrection, not to the earth in the future. Here He is called the Son of Man.
Daniel 7:13-14 "I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
Zech. 6:12-13, Then speak to him, saying, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying: "Behold, the Man whose name is the BRANCH!
From His place He shall branch out,
And He shall build the temple of the LORD;
13 Yes, He shall build the temple of the LORD.
He shall bear the glory,
And shall sit and rule on His throne;
So He shall be a priest on His throne,
And the counsel of peace shall be between them both."'
There are many more Messianic prophecies but it is widely known that the Jews never expected anything other than a human Messiah. However, couldn’t the Jews have gotten it wrong (as they often did in Jesus time)? They may have gotten it wrong in their extra-biblical writings and musings, but not in the inspired Word of God. Some might say it was simply veiled in the Old Testament that the Messiah was actually going to be God himself and this wasn’t revealed until the New Testament; let’s take a look at the following passage in the Old Testament:
Psalm 110:1, The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."
Let me again quote from Anthony Buzzard’s book 1The Doctrine of the Trinity – Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound.
It has been argued by some that this verse should be rendered ‘God said to my God…’ They insist that David knew of a duality in the Godhead and under inspiration declared the eternal Sonship and Deity of the one who was to become the man Jesus.
Such a theory involves a misuse of the Hebrew language which can easily be cleared up. The two words for ‘lord’ in the sentence ‘the LORD said to my lord’ are significantly different. The first ‘LORD’ is Yahweh… [and] refers to God, the Father, the One God of Israel (as it does on some 6700 occasions). The second word for ‘lord’ (here, ‘my lord’) is adoni, meaning according to all standard Hebrew lexicons, ‘lord,’ ‘master,’ or ‘owner,’ and it refers here, by way of prediction, to the Messiah. If David had expected the Messiah to be God, the word used would not have been adoni, but adonai, a term used exclusively for the One God.
Psalm 110:1 provides a major key to understanding who Jesus is. The Hebrew Bible carefully distinguishes the divine title adonai, the Supreme Lord, from adoni, the form of address appropriate to human and angelic superiors. Adoni, ‘my lord,’ ‘my master’ on no occasion refers to the deity. Adonai, on the other hand, is the special form of adon, Lord, reserved for address to the One God only.
A reader of the Hebrew Bible is schooled to recognize the vital distinction between God and man. There is an enormous difference between adoni, ‘my master,’ and adonai, the Supreme God. No less than 195 times in the Hebrew canon adoni marks the person addressed as the recipient of honor but never as the Supreme God. This important fact tells us that the Hebrew Scriptures expected the Messiah to be not God, but the human descendant of David, whom David properly recognized would also be his lord.
It is unusual for scholarly writing actually to misstate the facts about a word appearing in the Hebrew or Greek text. Astonishingly, however, a remarkable error crept into statements on high authority regarding the identity of the Messiah in this crucial Christological passage in Psalm 110:1.
Notice now the evidence of widespread confusion in the treatment of this Psalm. The status of Jesus as the human adoni has proved to be an embarrassment to later ‘orthodoxy.’ A Roman Catholic writer, in an effort to support his traditional doctrine of the eternal Son, states:
In Psalm 110:1 ‘Yahweh said to Adonai: Sit thou at my right hand.’ This passage is cited by Christ to prove that he is Adonai, seated at the right hand of Yahweh (Matt. 22:44). But Adonai ‘my master,’ as a proper name is used exclusively of the Deity, either alone or in such a phrase as Yahweh Adonai. It is clear, then that in this lyric Yahweh addresses the Christ as a different Person and yet identical in Godhead.
The information is incorrect. The second lord of the Hebrew text is specifically not adonai but adoni. The latter is never a divine title. The former always designates the Deity. The whole Trinitarian argument from this Psalm fails because the facts of the language are wrongly reported.
That pretty much says it all. The Old Testament seems pretty clear that the Messiah who was to come was going to be a true, flesh-and-blood, man.
Let’s see what the New Testament says:
Can God be tempted? Not according to James:
James 1:13, "God cannot be tempted with evil"
Jesus was tempted…
Luke 4:1-2, "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, Being forty days tempted of the devil."
Luke 22:28, "Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations."
Hebrews 2:18, "For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted..."
Hebrews 4:15, "...but was in all points tempted like as we are..."
If his temptations weren’t real then he wasn’t “in all points tempted like as we are”. If there was no real possibility of Jesus giving in to these temptations, then they weren’t really temptations. Do any other New Testament scriptures insinuate he was a man?
John 8:40, "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God..."
The rest of these verses are the Apostles speaking after Jesus’ resurrection.
Acts 2:22-24, 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know-- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you *have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.
Acts 2:36, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
Acts 3:22, "For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren..."
Acts 13:23, "Of this man's seed (David's) hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:"
Romans 5:19, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (one man, Jesus Christ, verse 15) shall many be made righteous."
1 Corinthians 15:21-23, "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam (a man) all die, even so in Christ (a man) shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward..."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
The above verse in 1 Timothy should be clear enough. Notice it does not say “one mediator between ‘the Father’ and men”, but “between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”. If Jesus were God, this scripture wouldn’t make any sense.
Hebrews 1:4, having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hebrews 1:11-12, For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying: "I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You."*
Hebrews 5:7-9, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 7:14, For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
Rev. 5:5, and one of the elders *said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals."
For Christ to truly come from the tribe of Judah, he had to be of Mary’s egg. Not an angel put in her womb and not God himself entering Mary’s womb, but an actual baby conceived in her womb from her egg (not from Joseph, but from God – virgin birth). The KJV uses the words “sprang out of Juda” in Hebrews 7:14. The Greek word is “anatello” and means “rise – to cause to rise – of the earth bringing forth plants – etc.”
Luke records the conversation between the Angel and Mary in this way:
Luke 1:35, The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
The Greek word here translated as “for that reason” (therefore in the KJV) is dio, and it means “wherefore; on account of”. The reason Jesus would be called the Son of God was because the Power of the Most High God was going to overshadow Mary and she would conceive, and for that reason, or on account of this, He would be called the Son of God.
We have seen that Jesus was a man, a mediator between God and man; we are to be like Christ – heirs with Him; God is our Father and Christ is our Brother:
Acts 3:22, "Moses said, 'THE LORD GOD WILL RAISE UP FOR YOU A PROPHET LIKE ME FROM YOUR BRETHREN; TO HIM YOU SHALL GIVE HEED to everything He says to you.
Romans 8:17, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with {Him} so that we may also be glorified with {Him.}
Romans 8:29, For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined {to become} conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Hebrews 2:11-12, For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one {Father;} for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, "I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE."
This should have thoroughly proven that Christ was a man; not a half man, not sort-of-a-man, not possessing a man’s body, not God masquerading as a man, but a real flesh-and-blood man. There is nothing to make us think He is one-third of a triune being. He is not co-equal and co-eternal with the Father. He is the Son of Man and the Son of God – He is our Lord and Savior.
1 Corinthians 8:6, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Phil. 2:11, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
4. Why a Man?
First of all when man sinned God required that blood be shed to pay for those sins.
Gen. 9:4-6, 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man. 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.
Blood had to be shed; without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins:
Hebrews 9:22, without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
But God cannot shed blood; He is not flesh and blood.
Matt. 16:17, And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal {this} to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Because blood is required, God set up the whole sacrificial system, but it was only a shadow or type pointing to the Messiah. This is the reason that the animal sacrifices in the Old Testament did not truly atone for sins.
Hebrews 10:4, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Man sinned, so man’s blood is required. Again, God’s blood is not required – God is not a man and He cannot die.
Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
By looking at Adam Christology we can see another reason Jesus had to be a true man (another Adam). The first Adam messed things up and the second Adam came to fix them.
1 Cor 15:45, So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam {became} a life-giving spirit.
Romans 5:14-19, Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One [man], Jesus Christ.)18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
1 Cor. 15:21-22, For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
Do you see the pattern emerging here? Man sinned so man has to pay for those sins. Therefore God, in his amazing foreknowledge and grace, had a contingency plan from the foundation of the world. He would have a man be born in the fullness of time. God’s Spirit would overshadow Mary and she would conceive and give birth to the Messiah who would pay for man’s sins.
The first Adam was called the Son of God because he was made by God; he was a true man, made by God
Luke 3:38, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Therefore, the second Adam had to be a true man, made by God. God created man (Adam) who had the capability of sinning (human nature), but not a propensity toward it (sin nature). He made him genetically perfect and hoped he would be behaviorally perfect. Once he disobeyed and ate of the forbidden fruit, sin nature entered the picture. The birth of our Savior was from God impregnating Mary, creating another genetically perfect man and hoping he would be behaviorally perfect. God was responsible for the flawless genetics, but he could not be responsible for the flawless behavior. Man is a free will being and as such must choose to obey or disobey. The first Adam chose to disobey; the second Adam was obedient in every way. We again quote from 3“One God and One Lord – Reconsidering the Cornerstone of the Christian Faith”:
In essence, God took a risk and trusted that the Last Adam would trust Him. This is love in action: taking a risk, giving second chances, demonstrating commitment to a promise.
The Bible is basically a story about two Adams and the two “races” they fathered. Romans 5:12-21 could be summarized like this:
Two Adams
Two Sons of God
Two men
Two gardens
Two temptations
Two decisions
Two results
Two races
Remember this?
Hebrews 4:15, "...but was in all points tempted like as we are..."
Can we really say he was “tempted like as we are” if he existed from eternity past, had a knowledge of this existence, and knew he would return to being God himself? I quote 4J.A.T. Robinson:
The traditional supranaturalistic way of describing the Incarnation almost inevitably suggests that Jesus was really God Almighty walking about on earth, dressed up as a man. Jesus was not a man born and bred – he was God for a limited period taking part in a charade. He looked like a man, he talked like a man, he felt like a man, but underneath he was God dressed up – like Father Christmas…Indeed, the very word “incarnation” (which, of course is not a Biblical term) almost inevitably suggests it. It conjures up the idea of a divine substance being plunged in flesh and coated with it like a chocolate or silver plating…The supranaturalist view of the Incarnation can never really rid itself of the idea of the prince who appears in the guise of a beggar. However genuinely destitute the beggar may be, he is a prince; and that in the end is what matters.
If it is a requirement that we believe in a Trinitarian God, a Binitarian God, or a God Family; if it is a requirement that we believe Jesus was anything other than the Son of God; why didn’t Peter mention it when he preached this sermon to JEWS (who were extremely Monotheistic and had no conception of the Trinity) in Acts chapter 2 right after he had received the promised Holy Spirit (which should have led him into all truth)?
Acts 2:22-42, "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know-- 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you *have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
'I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'*
29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, *according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
"Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'*
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who *gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
As stated earlier, these people listening to Peter were from all over the known world (Roman Empire), but were of the Jewish religion and were in Jerusalem for the feast of Pentecost. The Jewish religion had no concept of a Trinity. These 3000 people could not have had any concept that Jesus was God himself, yet 3000 people were saved and baptized that day! Amazing isn’t it!
It is amazing how the Jews were disingenuously trying to drum up charges against Jesus. At one point they say the following:
John 8:41, "You are doing the deeds of your father." They said to Him, "We were not born of fornication; we have one Father: God."
And then at another point they say Jesus was making himself equal with God because He said that God was His Father:
John 5:18, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
They were speaking out of both sides of their mouth – anything to try and trap Him.
5. Conclusion
Let us not destroy the historical Lord, Jesus Christ by making Him an eternal, pre-existent, omnipotent, untemptable, co-equal God who masqueraded as a man for a short time. He was a man in whom God dwelt, and through whom God spoke and worked and manifested Himself; a man who’s Father was God; a man who submitted to and God - "Not my will, but Thine, be done" (Luke 22:42).
The doctrine of the Trinity is not scriptural. The idea of 3 co-equal, co-eternal members of a Godhead is not to be found anywhere in the scripture; to quote Anthony Buzzard one last time from his book 1The Doctrine of the Trinity – Christianity’s Self-Inflicted Wound:
“Could it be that today’s Trinitarians inadvertently, and in sincerity desiring to exalt Jesus, fall into the trap of ascribing to the Messiah a position as God which he never claimed for himself? A claim to be Deity in the Trinitarian sense would actually be blasphemous by Jesus’ own standards, since he repeatedly affirmed that his Father was the only true God.
Footnotes
1. This book by Sir Anthony Buzzard can be purchased either by logging on to http://www.abc-coggc.org/coggc/books.htm or by calling 1-800-347-4261.
2. This quote is from the book, ‘The Use of the Fourth Gospel for Christology Today’, by J.A. Baker
3. To read excerpts from this book or to purchase, log on to http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=47
4. This quote is from the book, “Hones to God” pg. 65-66
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
 by Virgil on Wednesday, May 24 @ 19:50:35 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | He was a man in whom God dwelt, and through whom God spoke and worked and manifested Himself; a man who’s Father was God; a man who submitted to and God - "Not my will, but Thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). The doctrine of the Trinity is not scriptural.
Now these are some strong (and fighting) words, but I think by now we all know that any controversial topic can be discussed here.
While I wouldn't bet my life on the "doctrine of Trinity" as a dogmatic point, I think you are going way too far to suggest that "Jesus was a man" and just settling for that point without going into the consequences of that conclusion.
If you are correct, then Christ was no different than any other prophets of Israel - the problem is that all the prophetic narratives POINT to Jesus...so Christ's ministry is an outgrowth of all Biblical prophecy, and therefore Jesus cannot just be a man with "God dwelling in him" as you are portraying.
You do not need to make Jesus a man in order to disprove the doctrine of Trinity - I think you are going about this the wrong way. :) |
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
 by JeffE on Wednesday, May 24 @ 21:26:24 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | | John 1:1! |
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
 by chrisliv on Thursday, May 25 @ 01:47:38 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Yeah,
Christ certainly was a fully-human "man" who fulfilled the role as the Suffering Servant.
But, as Jeff notes John 1:1: "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Or, similarly: "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." Col. 1:17
So, there only exists two classes of beings: the Creator and "things" created.
The pre-incarnate Christ cannot be one of the things created, since the Bible informs us that He is The Creator, as well as the human Messiah, hence His name/title of Emmanuel.
I often hear people state how the name "Jesus" is the one that every knee bows to in Phillipians 2:10: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"
But, "Jesus" is the name of Christ's humiliation, and the passage in Philippians is chopped in-half by the added verse numbering.
It really reads: "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Phillipians 2:11
You see, we don't bow and confess that Jesus is Jesus.
We confess that Jesus is LORD, i.e., YHVH, or the "name which is above every name" in Jewish scripture.
I know, I know, some non-Trinitarians might ask how Jesus gave Himself His own Name of Exaltation, as per Phillipians 2:9: "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:" And, at this point, all I can say is to ask somebody with three or four Master degrees and an ABD doctorate in theology, like Sam Frost...
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone |
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
 by Ransom on Thursday, May 25 @ 05:32:04 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | | This whole discussion is interesting, but not really threatening, either. Whether you say Jesus is only man or God-Man, glorified human or deity, this much is sure: Jesus is Lord, worshipped and glorified, and for all practical purposes, God. |
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
 by mazuur on Thursday, May 25 @ 06:45:09 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | How about John 8:58
57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Here Jesus claimed to be the "I AM" himself.
Ex 3:13-14
" Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you."
And if he didn't exist prior how could he have seen Abraham?
How about 1 Cor. 10:1-4
"For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."
If Christ didn't exist prior how could he have been the one to lead Israel out of Egypt?
Col 1:16-17
"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
If Christ created all things, that puts him outside of the created order. That only leaves God. Notice Paul covered everything too. Things visible and invisible. That's what is physical (our universe) and what is spiritual (angels).
Your point,
"The word that is translated as “through” in Col. 1:16 is the Greek word “dia”. It can have the meaning of “because of” or “on account of”. Jesus is the reason for all of creation – both physical and spiritual. Many reputable Greek scholars such as J.H.Moulton in Grammar of New Testament Greek say that Colossians 1:16 should be rendered “for because of him”,"
doesn't help. Whether it was "by" or "for because of him" doesn't remove the point that "all things" were created "by" or "for because of" him. If Christ was created, then he had to be part of "all things". Also, if one does translate it as "for because of him", that only proves that the Father was right there with Christ creating, which we all agree and agrees with John 1:3 which also places Jesus outside of what is created. Those verses only prove that it was "God" (not Jesus alone) who created "all things", just as you spent many verse showing such as Gen 1:1.
Of course, I could go on and on with hundreds of verses that prove the Deity of Christ, but I see no point. The Scriptures are clear.
seeker, you have done nothing but proved things like the fact that Jesus was fully human, which all with agree on.
You have proved that God is one, which we all agree on. Matter of fact, if you would have proved just the opposite (that there on more than one God) then you would have proved the doctrine of the Trinity incorrect.
You have also proved that God the Father is distinct from Jesus. Yet, this is required to form the doctrine of the Trinity. One God yet three distinct personalities.
I think you need to take all the Scipture you provided and combine it with all the Scripture you avoided. Then you will clealy see the doctrine of the Trinity.
Rich |
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Oneness Proof Texts: (Score: 1)
 by KingNeb on Thursday, May 25 @ 11:48:21 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Psalm 2:2 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against himself, saying,….
Psalm 2:7 The LORD said to himself, “I am the Son; today I have begotten myself.”
John 16:3 3 And they will do these things because they have not known me, nor me…. 5 But now I am going to me who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, I will not come to you. But if I go, I will send myself to you. 8 And when I come, I will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Me, and you will see me no longer; …13 When I come, I will guide you into all the truth, for I will not speak on my own authority, but whatever I hear I will speak, and I will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 I will glorify me, for I will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that I have is mine; therefore I said that I will take what is mine and declare it to you.
John 17:1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Me, the hour has come; glorify Me that the I may glorify me,
John 17:4 4 I glorified me on earth, having accomplished the work that I gave me to do. 5 And now, Me, glorify me in my own presence with the glory that I had with me before the world existed. 6 "I have manifested my name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Mine they were, and I gave them to me, and they have kept my word. 7 Now they know that everything that I have given me is from me. 8 For I have given them the words that I gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from me; and they have believed that I sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom I have given me, for they are mine. 10 All mine are mine, and mine are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to me. Holy Me, keep them in my name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as I am one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in my name, which I have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to me, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them my word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that I take them out of the world, but that I keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; my word is truth. 18 As I sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. 20 "I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as I are in me, and I in me, that they also may be in me, so that the world may believe that I have sent me. 22 The glory that I have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as I am one, 23 I in them and me in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that I sent me and loved them even as I loved me. 24 Me, I desire that they also, whom I have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that I have given me because I loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Me, even though the world does not know me, I know me, and these know that I have sent me. 26 I made known to them my name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which I have loved me may be in them, and I in them."
John 14:16-21 16
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- by Seeker on Thursday, May 25 @ 11:51:09 PDT
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Re: A Short Dissertation on the Christology of the Bible (Score: 1)
by Sam on Thursday, May 25 @ 12:02:40 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | True, christianity did not have it all worked out concerning Eschatology, but what they did painfully work out over 100's of years was Chalcedon. While I do not take this article as an "attack" on the Nature of the Son of God, I sincerely hope that none promoting Planet Preterist would begin to even seriously take this article (which has been said before, just read your history surrounding Chalcedon and Athanasius) as a real challenge. If Preterism ever began to affirm the things in this article, it would be time for a great many of us to pack our bags, and , sadly, put on our denounciation hats, removing ourselves from certain groups and persons.
Samuel M. Frost |
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