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God has to be given permission to work in this earth realm on behalf of man…Yes! You are in control!
-- Frederick Price, Prayer: Do You Know What Prayer Is…and How to Pray? The Word Study Bible, 1178
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News: Dr. Greg Boyd responds to my question
Posted on Friday, April 14 @ 18:45:36 PDT by Virgil |
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When I came home today, on my desk there was a yellow envelope from Zondervan waiting for me. Zondervan was kind enough to send me a pre-release copy of Dr. Greg Boyd's book "The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the quest for political power is destroying the Church" and I must admit, I am very much impressed with this book only after one chapter. Not only that, but Dr. Boyd was kind enough to candidly answer a very pointed question I posed to him on Jared's Blog, on Israel, eschatology and the U.S. involvement in the whole Middle East mess...
My question to Dr. Boyd was: "I would be interested to see [Greg] comment on the politics/power relationship between the U.S. and Israel and perhaps see if he sees eschatology having an effect on that relationship. Of course, this is in the context of American Christians voting with an eschatological mindset and putting in power people that can bring about the second coming of Christ."
You can read his answer right here on Jared Coleman's Blog and also find out more about the upcoming book there.
I want to again thank both to Jared for bringing this book to my attention and to Zondervan for their involvement. I must say this (and no they did not pay me to say it) that the past few books published by Zondervan are just absolutely excellent, starting with Brian McLaren's Generous Orthodoxy and Rob Bell's Velvelt Elvis to Dr. Boyd's new book. Keep up the good work guys :)
Greg Boyd is the Senior Pastor at Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Boyd helped plant this church in 1992 and it has since grown to an average attendance of 5,000 each weekend. It is a church that is centered on passionate worship and biblical preaching. It emphasizes the truth that Jesus died to reconcile people to God and to one another.
Greg also served as a Professor of Theology at Bethel College for sixteen years, where he received the Teaching Excellence Award and Campus Leadership Award.
More at http://www.gregboyd.org/
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Re: Dr. Greg Boyd responds to my question (Score: 1)
 by Virgil on Friday, April 14 @ 19:07:07 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | I want to add a quick comment to this article. It seems like drama and irony never ends here on Planet Preterist. Dr. Boyd's book especially hits home in the context of my recent article on John Calvin titled The Right to Heresy.
I have repeatedly argued in the comments section for the constitutional rights of someone to not be a Christian, and I have spoken against the use of force by government to enforce Christian theology. Dr. Boyd's book is a major step in the right direction as he does a very good job at dismantling the myth that the United States is a Christian Nation, and rightly points out the fact that "a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry" -- noting that there is a dangerous fusion of the Kingdom of Christ with a certain political party, political system or program coming from Washington.
A theocracy-like government was a disaster in Calvin's Geneva and it is also taking the American Church on a dangerous path today. I wholeheartedly agree with Greg's thesis, so if you have a chance, get his book. :) |
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- by demario on Saturday, April 15 @ 05:36:48 PDT
- by Virgil on Saturday, April 15 @ 07:54:22 PDT
- by Parker on Saturday, April 15 @ 09:31:00 PDT
- by Parker on Saturday, April 15 @ 08:10:51 PDT
- by Virgil on Saturday, April 15 @ 08:28:38 PDT
- by Parker on Saturday, April 15 @ 09:48:31 PDT
- by Randude on Saturday, April 15 @ 08:52:10 PDT
- by Parker on Saturday, April 15 @ 09:47:04 PDT
- by Randude on Saturday, April 15 @ 14:45:47 PDT
- by Ed on Saturday, April 15 @ 17:58:27 PDT
- by chrisliv on Saturday, April 15 @ 19:48:44 PDT
Re: Dr. Greg Boyd responds to my question (Score: 1)
 by Ed on Saturday, April 15 @ 11:31:39 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Gentlemen,
I have to side with Parker and Gary on this one. While I clearly think that the kingdom of God is NOT synonomous with the Republican Party, I feel that the majority of folks that start their arguments like that do believe that the kingdom of God IS synonomous with the Democrat Party (e.g., Jim Wallis). While Wallis may believe that "God is not a Republican, nor a Democrat," it is clear by Wallis' rhetoric over the past 30 years that HE (Wallis) is a Democrat. When I read the same kind of rhetoric coming from Boyd, McLaren, Presence Ministries, etc., I am afraid that they too have bought into the socialist beliefs that made Virgil's early years in Romania so wonderful.
As Parker has pointed out, the Constitution forbid the placing of one theological and ecclesiastical system in prominence over the others. And yet, as Mr. DeMar can clearly show in his books, virtually every single one of the founding states had constitutions and laws that required TRINITARIAN belief in order to hold office, or to vote, or to testify in a court of law.
Mr. Boyd, as well as those who made the same claim in the past, may find it necessary to defend their support of liberal causes by demonizing those of us of the conservative/libertarian mindset. Truth be told, I am NOT a danger of any of the false claims made by many here. While it is true that I used to be a Reconstructionist, I am no longer. I do not believe that all libertarian economic policies (as Dr. Gary North believs) should be considered "biblical economics" as I believe that Dr. North has ignored some blaring examples of conservative economic theory (e.g., Joseph's taxing of the produce in Egypt, and the subsequent gov't assistance program that followed). I do not support Israel because they are "God's chosen people," and I do not oppose Muslims because I am a fundamentalist whacko.
Truth be told, we have seen in the world what happens when the people of a nation are not protected against Islam (note I did not use the adjective "radical"). People murdered, cities destroyed, peace activists kidnapped, innocent people beheaded, etc.
While some people (as our friends at Presence) claim that Christianity has a sorted history as well, so we shouldn't get too distraught over Islam, I would respond by stating that Christianity has had periods of shame, but Islam has been shameful from its origin.
Certain religious leaders have allowed Christian people to burn folks at the stake (Calvin), behead others (Cromwell), lead violent revolutions (the Irish Republic Army), and own slaves (early Christian settlers of America). Yet, Mohammed himself slaughtered, or ordered the slaughter of many people from the outset. While the bible teaches that Jesus told us to "love our enemies," Mohammed taught his followers to "kill the infidels."
No follower of religion is without fault, but there is clearly a difference between Christianity and Islam. For those who can't see it, they are either willfully foolish, or just plain stupid.
Yes, these are harsh words, but I am very angry about the direction some of you wish for our nation to go. As I said elsewhere, when the Muslims start taking your heads, you'll have Mr. Boyd and his ilk to thank for it (or maybe you'll get lucky and you'll be gone by then - then only your kids will be forced to either convert to Islam or lose their heads).
ed
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Re: Dr. Greg Boyd responds to my question (Score: 1)
 by Barry on Tuesday, April 18 @ 07:53:51 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil writes:
"I want to add a quick comment to this article. It seems like drama and irony never ends here on Planet Preterist. Dr. Boyd's book especially hits home in the context of my recent article on John Calvin titled The Right to Heresy.
I have repeatedly argued in the comments section for the constitutional rights of someone to not be a Christian, and I have spoken against the use of force by government to enforce Christian theology. Dr. Boyd's book is a major step in the right direction as he does a very good job at dismantling the myth that the United States is a Christian Nation, and rightly points out the fact that "a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry" -- noting that there is a dangerous fusion of the Kingdom of Christ with a certain political party, political system or program coming from Washington.
A theocracy-like government was a disaster in Calvin's Geneva and it is also taking the American Church on a dangerous path today. I wholeheartedly agree with Greg's thesis, so if you have a chance, get his book. :)"
John Lock writes:
A LETTER CONCERNING TOLERATION
by John Locke
translated by William Popple
"For it must be remembered that the civil power is the same everywhere, and the religion of every prince is orthodox to himself. If, therefore, such a power be granted unto the civil magistrate in spirituals as that at Geneva, for example, he may extirpate, by violence and blood, the religion which is there reputed idolatrous, by the same rule another magistrate, in some neighbouring country, may oppress the reformed religion and, in India, the Christian. The civil power can either change everything in religion, according to the prince's pleasure, or it can change nothing. If it be once permitted to introduce anything into religion by the means of laws and penalties, there can be no bounds put to it; but it will in the same manner be lawful to alter everything, according to that rule of truth which the magistrate has framed unto himself. No man whatsoever ought, therefore, to be deprived of his terrestrial enjoyments upon account of his religion. Not even Americans, subjected unto a Christian prince, are to be punished either in body or goods for not embracing our faith and worship. If they are persuaded that they please God in observing the rites of their own country and that they shall obtain happiness by that means, they are to be left unto God and themselves."
We owe so very much to John Locke. So very much.
Barry
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- by Virgil on Wednesday, April 19 @ 14:47:34 PDT
- by Barry on Wednesday, April 19 @ 15:42:24 PDT
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