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[The Spirit of God]...declared in the earth today what the eternal purpose of God has been through the ages...that He is duplicating Himself in the earth
-- John Avanzini, "The End Time Manifestation of the Sons of God
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Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism
Posted on Monday, March 27 @ 10:20:10 PST by John |
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paul submitted: "Military intervention against networks of terrorist strategy is today's primary organized means of defeating the ideology of extremists who want to murder anyone who fails to bow to Allah. Every nation judges that self-defense is a duty, not a luxury, which provides rational credibility for the current strategy, which includes the controversial idea of engaging in "pre-emptive strikes". If you perceive a threat (i.e. that Saddam Hussein might acquire nuclear and biological weapons, for example), and he has used these weapons before on his own people, and he has demonstrated a propensity to disregard the rights of any neighbor, then you better remove him from power by force, in the name of "national security".
Since no sane citizen wants a repeat of the murderous assault on American citizens which occurred on September 11, 2001, the military export of regime change has appeared to be, whatever its faults, a practical real-life approach to vicious haters of all things Western, all things Christian, and even of fellow Muslims who are moderate.
The military strategy, even if it is deemed to be a necessity of taking a stand against murder, is flawed by its utter dependence on longterm and very expensive defense resources, and the absolute need for sustained public support, which contradicts human nature ( although I, personally, believe that the weenie alternatives proposed have convinced me that the neo-conservative strategy won by default...all the critics did was criticize, and offer nothing in the way of practical and effective ways to end terrorism, except to arrest a few terrorists and try them in a court of law.)
Here's a radical idea: Father Abraham may be needed right now! Okay, hear me out before you write me off. (Then, write me off). Seriously, an organized theme for the diplomatic side of winning the war against global terrorism should be proposed by Christians, not the government. Here's one "ecumenical movement" that might just be essential to preserving civilization. Christians should openly challenge citizens of goodwill who are not Christians, especially if they are Jewish and Muslim, to participate in public discussions of how we view Father Abraham. Why? Because, this many centuries after the ancient Patriarch lived, he is the only human being in history who is deeply admired Christians, Jewish folks, and Muslims!
In 1990, I took a second job. Being broke was a regular part of being alive, so I was thankful to find this second job. It was a job as a medical clerk and marketing assistant for a psychiatric hospital unit which provided therapy for older persons with depression. I noticed that the content of group therapies and other parts of the program included many Biblical principles. I also took note of the fact that these therapies, with so much Biblically-derived content, seemed to be changing, for the better, the level of depression experienced by the participants.
So, when I met the Phd psychologist who developed the program, he and I became good friends. We shared a keen interest in marketing strategies. I asked him about the Biblical content, some of which was overt. He explained that while he was not deeply religious, that he had grown up Jewish, and that his family and religious exposures convinced him early on that there is good relief for depression from this type of spiritual resource. Even though I was and am an outspoken Christian, and my friend was a somewhat secular Jewish humanist, we both found an instaneous note of accord when the subject of Father Abraham came up!
In my regular full-time job I have been acquainted with many healthcare professionals who were born in other countries. Some of these have been persons from Arab countries, who have tried to explain to me their religious heritage. Again, when the subject of Father Abraham comes up, I am surprised at how persons so different as an American evangelical Christian, and a devout practicing Muslim can find some degree of friendly common ground, almost as if we were talking about a great-great grandpa of the both of us!
I haven't developed the idea into an organized way for Christians to both engage in true friendship evangelism, while becoming expert listeners, in forums where there would be more light than heat. If it is nothing more than the politically correct limitations of really saying anything, it will not change things. But, if there is discovered a way to make honest and friendly freedom to have two-way conversations between Christians and believers in Judaism and Islam, with Father Abraham as the central focus, this actually seems to me to be the most intelligent longterm means of ending terrorism.
Paul Richard Strange, Sr. March 25, 2006
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
 by mazuur on Monday, March 27 @ 11:51:46 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Very well, but what about the short term means of ending terrorism?
And once you do talk I have a feeling it will go something like this,
“Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.” And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, they kept all the more silent. Then he said:“I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers’ law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women, as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished. “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’ So I answered, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’ “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. So I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.’ And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus. “Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there, came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance 18 and saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’ So I said, ‘Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You. And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’ Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’” And they listened to him until this word, and then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he is not fit to live!” Acts 22:1-22
Rich |
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
 by Virgil on Monday, March 27 @ 12:14:22 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | This kind of approach you are proposing is even more difficult for us Preterists, mostly because we are sometimes perceived as being anti-Semitic. This is because of the extreme ideas put forth by some Preterists. I even heard some hyper-Calvinists say that God hates the Jews, and that is why he destroyed them in A.D. 70.
Now, what kind of reaction do you think that message would create?
Actually I agree with your proposition and I believe that dialog is key to creating relationship between Christians and the rest of the world, I do so with a cautious optimism. I think we could make things work. If not, we can always go back to the Crusades like some Preterists are suggesting. |
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End of Terrorism? I Think Not (Score: 1)
 by davo on Monday, March 27 @ 15:03:53 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) |
Paul Richard Strange, Sr: Here's a radical idea: Father Abraham may be needed right now! Okay, hear me out before you write me off. (Then, write me off).
IF what was said prior to the above statement were true, then what followed it needed not to be said.
There's nothing like the passing of time and body bags to get people back to talking "dialogue". The chest-thumping sabre rattling "time for talk is over, it's time for 'shock and awe'" seems unusually quiet these days. Bush himself has publicly acknowledged that there was NO LINK between 911 and Saddam. The Anglo-American led Coalition has brought nothing but mayhem, misery and civil war, and has NOW created a hotbed of terrorism.
This self confessed "war president" and his lackeys have engaged in an immoral, unrighteous and evil act of aggression and occupation, of which there will be no quick or soon end to the shedding of innocent blood – be that of civilians or soldiers under command. Of course IMO.
davo
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On to something ... (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Monday, March 27 @ 22:30:57 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | It seems the author is still unaware that controlled demolition, not airplanes, brought the Twin Towers down.
As for the Father Abraham dialogue, he is on to something.
** ** ** ** ** **
This is the link to Professor Jones' paper on controlled demolition:
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html |
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
by mazuur on Tuesday, March 28 @ 07:27:19 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Here is your dialogue with Islam...
"On Monday, hundreds of clerics, students and others chanting "Death to Christians!" marched through the northern Afghan city of Mazar-e-Sharif to protest the court decision Sunday to dismiss the case. Several Muslim clerics threatened to incite Afghans to kill Rahman if he is freed, saying that he is clearly guilty of apostasy and deserves to die.
"Abdul Rahman must be killed. Islam demands it," said senior Cleric Faiez Mohammed, from the nearby northern city of Kunduz. "The Christian foreigners occupying Afghanistan are attacking our religion."
Rahman was arrested last month after police discovered him with a Bible during a custody dispute over his two daughters. He was put on trial last week for converting 16 years ago while he was a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189312,00.html
Rich |
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
 by Ed on Tuesday, March 28 @ 08:34:31 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | As usual, articles like these bring out the peaceniks and conspiracy theory nuts by the score. Then the original premise of the article is forgotten. So, with that I'd like to address our brother Paul's idea.
One of our brothers here showed our peaceful Islamic friends' attitudes towards Christians in Afghanistan - "KILL 'EM, KILL 'EM ALL." I wonder exactly what our Christian brother, who is facing death at the hands of our peace-loving Abrahamic brothers, was doing that necessitated the death penalty (maybe planting bombs under the nearest outhouse?).
In addition, let's consider our 4 PEACE ACTIVISTS who were taken prisoner by the peace-loving Muslims. One tortured, killed (beheaded I believe). The rest RESCUED by those evil American troops that Mr. Kerry characterized as "terror(ists)."
Yes, I have had Muslim friends. I have discussed Father Abraham with them. They have not blown up anybody, or tried to kill anyone. But those who have need to be stopped - and they won't stop by talking to them about being nice. |
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
 by Flakinde on Wednesday, March 29 @ 08:03:09 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | The idea sounds well and good in theory, but there is one issue you might be overlooking. The Torah and the Q'uran have two different accounts about Father Abraham, they don't match up perfectly. For example, one says Abraham sent Ishmael off, while the other says Ishmael and Isaac were with their father till he died (if you need the text reference, let me know).
This is just one of many inconsistencies that I can now remember... and of course, in conversation a Muslim will say that the Torah is corrupt in this area, and that it is the Q'uran that has the true account about Abraham. Basically, they will appeal to Scripturalism based on another scripture.
In conclusion, I'm sorry to say your idea is not bound to work.
Blessed in His rest,
Alexander Rodríguez |
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Re: Father Abraham and the End of Terrorism (Score: 1)
by judge on Thursday, March 30 @ 15:37:12 PST
(User Info | Send a Message) | Paulwrote:
Since no sane citizen wants a repeat of the murderous assault on American citizens which occurred on September 11, 2001, the military export of regime change has appeared to be, whatever its faults, a practical real-life approach to vicious haters of all things Western, all things Christian, and even of fellow Muslims who are moderate.
Judge:
have you considered that it might not be that they hate all things western or all things Christian.
Maybe they are upste with our continual support of the state of Isael amongst other things. |
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- by Virgil on Thursday, March 30 @ 15:47:12 PST
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