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I got to tell you this quickly, just before we go. I had a word of prophecy from Ruth Heflin. You know who Ruth Heflin is? Ruth prophesied over me back in the '70s and everything she said has happened. She's just sent me a word through my wife and said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said that He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. Yeah. She - I'm telling you! - she said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said "Tell Benny I'm going to appear physically on the platform in his meeting. -- Benny Hinn, is Your Day, March 29, 2000 |
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by Virgil Vaduva Recently I received an e-mail from someone regarding a book that is in the works by several Preterist authors, framed as a response to Keith Mathison’s book "When Shall These Things Be?" I chuckled, but I must say that I respect all of those participating, so I really cannot cause offense to those wonderful brothers by appearing to demean their hard work, because that is not my goal, nor is my goal to minimize what they are trying to accomplish. But...
...in the almost six years or so of my involvement in Preterism, I have come to realize that Preterists in general seem to be addicted to being apologists. This anti-Mathison book is dubbed as a book that will "benefit the whole Preterist movement for all generations to come." Perhaps this will be true, but how exactly does that happen and how will the Preterist movement gain from another defensive project such as this one?
Quite amazingly, Preterists seem to be very willing let their opposition define them and manipulate them by letting themselves get caught into a vicious circle or arguments, counter-arguments, book responses and debates. For one minute, let me share with you the story of the fly and the elephant, which is quite relevant to this topic:
"An elephant was standing and picking leaves from a tree. A small fly came, flying and buzzing near his ear. The elephant waved it away with his long ears. Then the fly came again, and the elephant waved it away once more.
This was repeated several times. Then the elephant asked the fly:
"Why are you so restless and noisy? Why can't you stay for a while in one place?"
The fly answered: "I am attracted to whatever I see, hear or smell. My five senses pull me constantly in all directions and I cannot resist them. What is your secret? How can you stay so calm and still?"
The elephant stopped eating and said:
"My five senses do not rule my attention. Whatever I do, I get immersed in it. Now that I am eating, I am completely immersed in eating. In this way I can enjoy my food and chew it better. I rule and control my attention, and not the other way around."
If Preterism does not move beyond being just an apologetic movement, which it is today, it will never break out of the small box we neatly label "Preterism." Being always on the defense with vast resources spent on writing apologies as if we have something to defend is hardly productive. Furthermore, people like Mathison and R.C. Sproul Jr. have huge numbers of followers ready to fall on the sword for them. In simpler words, Mathison and Sproul will acknowledge Preterism to be a valid construct when every single donor and subscriber to Table Talk becomes a Preterist or more accurately "when pigs fly."
Now, let’s assume that this book is written for the benefit of the vast masses of futurists out there. The problem is that this is a theological approach, taken to solve a practical problem. The problem is not that the masses of futurists are uneducated on the issue of theology because education simply does not bring one to a valid position on a certain topic, especially when we discuss theology. Take people like N.T. Wright, R.C. Sproul, Ken Gentry, etc. They are the giants of contemporary theology, great men who show great respect for God’s word, yet they continue to reject the obvious truths of Covenant Eschatology. And if lessons in theology do not bring one closer to truth then we can very well conclude that the fight over Preterism cannot be won between the generals, but in the trenches, where average Christians read their Bibles and go "aha!" when they simply get it.
I am not a pessimist by nature, but can I at least ask how this tremendous effort will benefit "the whole Preterist movement for all generations to come?" Preterism will not make strides in this supposed "war" by winning over its vocal critics. Preterism will win this theoretical war in the pews, where the masses of believers read their Bibles and e-mail their friends, where they carry out conversations with their Sunday school teachers and students. Furthermore these back-and-forth attacks do not help either. We reinforce the idea that we are indeed "at war" with the non-Preterists which is certainly not the case. I have always said that all futurists are future Preterists. Reinforcing the idea of "war" only creates more bad blood between us and it makes it even harder to share fulfilled prophecy with others.
I trust that this project will be successful, but I also hope that all of us Preterists can eventually move beyond apologies onto solid ground where we can get a better grip on what needs to be done for the kingdom of Christ. Without someone to fight, there is no war, and without a war of words, there is no need for us to be on the defense. Solid Preterist apologies have been already written many times before. James Stuart Russell’s "Parousia" is one of the best known early works on Preterism. Max King’s magnum opus "The Cross and the Parousia" is the most solid and comprehensive defense of Preterism written to date and it is unlikely anyone can even come close to matching it. Many other noted scholars like Sam Frost and Don Preston have already written dozens of defenses on many topics including the resurrection of the dead which seems to be the biggest concern of Mathison & Co.
If our chief critics were so concerned with truth, they would have already read, analyzed and offered responses to some of these most awesome Preterist works already in existence. Instead, they often resort to name-calling and the use of the "h" word as much as possible in order to easily portray us as some nut jobs spending too much time on the Internet. So fellow preterists, the problem is not lack of theology, but lack of application. This fight can only be won in the pews, and the people in the pews are the ones filling up the deep pockets of Sproul and Mathison. But even deep pockets have bottoms, and when the flies stop buzzing and start focusing on God’s word, the elephant will start paying attention and will have nobody left to converse with and sell magazines to.
So again, I do not mean to minimize this project and its commendable goal, but perhaps it is time for us to stop letting others define who we are. Let us understand that the roles are perhaps reversed. Let us think big so we can reap big rewards. Let us act like the "elephants" Preterism helps us become. Let us stop apologizing and teach prophecy as what it factually is: fulfilled.
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Virgil Vaduva is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.
View Virgil Vaduva archives
Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.
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Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Saturday, December 31 @ 04:54:37 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | To begin with let me say a hearty “AMEN” to what you’ve written Virgil. In my experience the last people who will accept Preterism are Theologians and Pastors. They have to much invested in their current belief systems (e.g. reputation, livelihood, books, articles and past statements on eschatology they’ve made). The target audience should be the Christian who is seeking to know the truth so as to be set free. I believe the concept of “being set free” from falsehoods of current church teachings should be a priority for those who hold to “Covenant Eschatology”.
Since we say we hold these teachings (Covenant Eschatology) to be true let’s stop defending them and begin proclaiming them. I believe more books and articles should be written, not from an apologetic point of view, but from the perspective of proclaiming these truths and how they’ve impacted our faith and lives. For me personally I’ve found that these truths have given me a greater sense of hope and trust in Gods’ word. The “Kingdom of God” is come and it will have NO END. Our work is not in vain.
It is the part of the Gospel (good news) that has been left out. Not only did Christ die and rise from the dead but he (the High Priest of our faith) has come in His Kingdom. We are not like the unbelieving Jews in the wilderness who see the world through the eyes of the “flesh“ but we are those who have the eyes of “faith”. Jesus Reigns.
Richard........ |
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- by Virgil on Saturday, December 31 @ 07:29:58 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by Orthodox on Saturday, December 31 @ 06:44:20 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil wrote,"Quite amazingly, Preterists seem to be very willing let their opposition define them and manipulate them by letting themselves get caught into a vicious circle or arguments, counter-arguments, book responses and debates." Are Preterists defined by Futurists or by the Word?
Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,lest you yourself also be like him.
26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
lest he be wise in his own estimation.
3:15 But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess. 3:16 Yet do it with courtesy and respect, keeping a good conscience, so that those who slander your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame when they accuse you. 3:17 For it is better to suffer for doing good....
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- by Virgil on Saturday, December 31 @ 07:35:57 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by Terry on Saturday, December 31 @ 08:26:48 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil-
Excellent thoughts.
More people will be moved to ride a bicycle when they see someone riding one than by reading a technical manual on "How bicycles work".
Terry M. Hall
Dayton, Ohio |
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- by leslie on Wednesday, January 04 @ 14:46:46 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by mazuur on Saturday, December 31 @ 08:50:01 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | "benefit the whole Preterist movement for all generations to come."
This can not be, as Max King's book "The Cross and the Parousia of Christ" is already that book, especially pages 381-666 of said book. heh heh heh heh
Rich |
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- by Virgil on Saturday, December 31 @ 08:55:20 PST
- by mazuur on Saturday, December 31 @ 09:39:59 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by vinster on Saturday, December 31 @ 09:03:46 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Nice Job Bro !!!
In The Pews is exactly where it begins.
But don't you think these folks in the pews are gonna need something that'll give them the basics of what Covenat Eschatology is all about???
I think that this is where this book will do the most good. Vinster |
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- by Virgil on Saturday, December 31 @ 09:11:36 PST
- by vinster on Saturday, December 31 @ 11:34:36 PST
- by Virgil on Saturday, December 31 @ 17:11:40 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by dkpret on Sunday, January 01 @ 06:14:43 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Well, at the risk of sounding "apologetic" :-) I would like to offer a bit of a rejoinder.
I think I understand where you are coming from. However, there are some issues at stake here that need addressing.
First, in the books that I write, and in the debates that I engage, I am seldom, if ever, thinking that I am going to convince my opponent. I am, in fact, after the man in the pew! That man in the pew has been reading and listening to my opponent, thinking he has the truth. But, I can testify that the "apologetic" books I write and debates I have held have resulted in the persuasion of lots of the pew packers! I could give literally hundreds of anecdotes, but that is not the point. I suggest that the exciting "grass roots" nature of the movement called Covenant Eschatology that we are seeing today is, in fact, the direct result of the polemic foundation of the preterist movement! If apologetics has started the fire, do we quench that flame by apologetic silence?
Second, to suggest that we cannot allow our opponents to define us, while sounding good on the surface has another side. When our opponents write books, preach sermons, etc. telling the pew packers what preterists believe, and how awful we are, if we do not respond apologetically, we have, de facto, allowed our detractors to define us in the exact way that they want to define us, i.e. wrongly! They want to poison the well of the minds of their listeners/readers. They hope we will not set the record straight, and their audiences will not know what we really believe and the supportive datum for it!
So, if we allow our detractors to define us, through our silence and refusal to engage in polemics, we have effective surrendered the ground! In other words, apologetics is the only way that we can, in the mind of those listening to our detractors, properly define ourselves!
A prime example, Thomas Ice recently wrote an article in which he claims that preterists are anti-Semitic, and believe that the Jews today are, and will always be under the curse of God. Now, do we withdraw from the apologetic field and allow that kind of horrid misrepresentation to define us in the mind of his readers?
If it is being suggested that preterist pew packers share with non-preterist pew packers that this is a gross misrepresentation of the preterist view, then what is that, but personal polemics at work? And, if some of us who are on the apologetic front lines can write books and produce evidentiary materials to help that preterist pew packer to be better equiped to respond to the non-preterist pew packer, then are we not all working in concert to glorify Christ and his truth?
I suggest that neither the preterist movement, nor the church will ever be able to move beyond "the apologetic stage." (Incidentally, history shows that when any movement moves past its initial stages of discovery, sharing and apologetics they die!)
As long as there are unbelievers, skeptics, etc., there will always be the need for Christians to "Sanctify Christ in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer apologia."
Should the church move beyond the apologetic stage of affirming and defending the inspiration of the scriptures and the Deity of Christ? Our Jewish and Islamic neighbors would love it if there were no well qualified defenders of the faith of Christ!
While I definitely agree that the positive affirmation of the gospel message is good, as one commentator on this list has noted, Paul was apologetic to the core, yet, he also proclaimed a positive message.
I suggest that in one sense, apologetics is the lifeblood of any movement, for it is in the fire of apologetics that we are forced to rethink, to reconsider, to dig deeper, and to know better.
I hope that I have not come across as too "apologetic." I suppose someone could argue that since I write books that are somewhat apologetic, and engage in debates, that I am offering "self serving" thoughts. I hope this is not the case. In fact, as I survey
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- by Islamaphobe on Sunday, January 01 @ 07:33:22 PST
- by mazuur on Sunday, January 01 @ 09:50:47 PST
- by Virgil on Sunday, January 01 @ 10:41:12 PST
- by dkpret on Sunday, January 01 @ 13:19:54 PST
- by davecollins on Saturday, January 21 @ 20:42:05 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by Duck on Sunday, January 01 @ 18:33:00 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil,
I appreciate your thoughts but I would have to agree with Don on this one. I was a part of a house church for 12 years only to have it all blow up in my face due to preterism. The main weapon of choice the futurist used to demonize me and the other preterists was Matheson's book. Yes, that's right, Matheson's book was a huge part of why our group split. I think a formal and thorough rebuttal must be offered in response to Matheson so that what I experienced may not happen to others. Proverbs says, One man seems right until another comes along. I'm glad that others like Don and Sam are coming along to offer another opinion.
David |
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- by Virgil on Sunday, January 01 @ 20:30:58 PST
- by Duck on Tuesday, January 03 @ 09:22:42 PST
- by Virgil on Tuesday, January 03 @ 09:42:14 PST
- by Sam on Tuesday, January 03 @ 10:46:22 PST
Re: The Everlasting Fire of Apologies (Score: 1)
by Sam on Monday, January 02 @ 06:21:08 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Virgil,
Being one of the authors of this book, I have to say that you need to beware of the dangers of causing even more division where there is unity. Dave, Don, myself, Ed and others writing for the project do not agree on many things. Yet, we were able to cooperate, put differences aside, and unite. Apologetics is a part of theology as a whole. It is a both/and thing, not an either/or. There are some of us motivated to be apologists. Let them be! There are others who fight in the trenches. Let them be! Let both be and applaud all efforts to continue to make inroads.
As General Editor of the Open Bible project, I cannot but help to have some understanding of this project as an apology: we CAN make a Study Bible! It IS showing, or giving answer mainly to folks like Gentry who say that "preterism is incapable of making a system of other doctrines." That is, all we care about is Matthew 24. The Open Bible, with notes in every chapter, introductions, articles and the whole nine yards, will "answer" (apologia) that objection.
Secondly, you have not read the articles of Ed's book, soon to come out. I have. They are powerful articles, and I recommend all to read them, especially our critics. In fact, this book will ARM those in the trenches and in the pew who are struggling with how to "answer" others.
I can hear preterists, even now, bemoaning "another Study Bible." why do we need that? can't we just read Max King, or Don Preston, or go to Planet Preterist and Preterist Archives? I appreciate what you are saying, but don't be an unwilling participant in the criticism Ed has faced in publishing this work.
Samuel Frost |
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- by Virgil on Monday, January 02 @ 07:06:54 PST
- by mazuur on Tuesday, January 03 @ 11:26:25 PST
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