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"something will happen that brings about the war which will end the world as we know it... There will be a vicious cycle of storms and earthquakes that lead to the final battle the world has awaited." -- Dotson Meade, 1999 |
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Exclusive: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Genesis Debate – Part 1
Posted on Thursday, December 29 @ 07:19:10 PST by Timothy P. Martin |
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by Timothy P. Martin I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the number of responses to Beyond Creation Science since its release in 2001. I received feedback from preterists around the United States and even a few from outside the United States. What continues to amaze me is how few negative responses there have been compared to the many favorable reviews. Many who read that little book had never thought of the preterist implications regarding Creation Science ideology. A few said they saw these same implications years ago. The overwhelming majority who responded found my original presentation, why preterism and Creation Science are incompatible, convincing. For that I praise God.
The issue of young-earth creationism for many conservative Christians remains an emotional issue. I was expecting a stiff headwind of opposition from preterists who generally come from the same conservative Christian background which is the bastion of Creation Science ideology. So far, this expected opposition has not materialized. The few negative responses I have received from preterists have been uniformly lacking in their interaction with the main elements of my thesis. Some relied on the “scientific evidence” of a young earth as proof my thesis is in error. Others dismissed the presentation as common liberal skepticism and unbelief – no refutation necessary. To date, no preterist dedicated to young-earth creationism has attempted to deal with the substantive issues or main thrust of my thesis in print. Maybe there are fewer preterists dedicated to the Creation Science paradigm than I thought.
Those who read the first edition of Beyond Creation Science will remember it as a narrow project limited to a critical examination of the global flood doctrine. As a result of this limitation, there was one recurring theme in much of the feedback I received. Over and over again, I was asked that same question so many preterists struggle with in various ways: what now? Where does a refutation of a global flood and Creation Science ideology leave us in the wider Bible-Science and Creation-Evolution debate? Part two of this new edition is dedicated to exploring that question.
I have avoided strong conclusions because the modern biblical origins debate is a 500 – pound gorilla. Those who approach it without respect in some closed-minded, overconfident manner will likely be thumped back into reality sooner or later. Yet, I do believe the theological advance of biblical-redemptive understanding we call preterism has much to offer the discussion about biblical cosmogony.
There are a few people I would like to thank for their help in this project. I thank my wife who puts up with my erratic study and writing habits. I thank my children who give me the excuse I need to escape with them on long wilderness treks. I thank Steve Wagner, a fellow elder in congregational ministry, in whose walk-in closet this project began. I also thank Bo Stuart, another fellow elder in congregational ministry, who is not too sure about my thesis. His input has kept me honest. I also thank all the members of Covenant Community Church, Whitehall, Montana, who have signed their lives into the bonds of Christian covenant living. I also thank Jeff Vaughn for his insightful suggestions and his family for their help in proofreading. I also thank Marcus Booker whose conversations with me are more stimulating than he realizes. I pray God will use this project to further His eternal kingdom in whatever way He sees fit. To God be the glory!
A Necessary Introduction to Beyond Creation Science
There are few issues among conservative Christians surrounded by greater controversy than the proper understanding of Genesis. Today, many Christians with a high view of Scripture give their full attention to Genesis. This is not just a modern phenomenon. Augustine focused on Genesis when he developed many of the seed ideas we today call “Historic Christian Theology.” No one suggests he explained every detail properly, but he was right about one thing. The book of Genesis is at the heart of Christianity. Without a proper understanding of Genesis, the biblical revelation of salvation in Jesus Christ is in jeopardy. A proper understanding of the Bible begins in the book of Genesis. Mistakes made here will inevitably ripple across the rest of the Bible.
This is why the controversy over Genesis is important. On the surface it appears the historic battle lines are drawn. Very little has changed for at least a couple centuries. There is a long history in Church tradition supporting different interpretations of Genesis. Think of the debate over the “days” of Genesis.[1] Those who understand them to be literal, 24-hour days follow the lead of Ambrose and the Puritans. Those who deny a 24-hour interpretation follow Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus, Augustine and the Dutch Reformed. Add to these historic views the fight between Fundamentalism and Modernism in the 20th century and the contemporary stage is set. The various debates over Genesis roll on with flaming rhetoric: old earth vs. young earth, figurative vs. narrative, allegory vs. literal, local flood vs. global flood.
While many Christians spend tremendous effort furthering their own side, few examine the roots of the disagreements. Only rarely does anyone ask if the assumptions which support the continuing debates are, in fact, the right assumptions. Have we asked the right questions? Do we understand the fundamental character of the debate? Is the matter really as simple as those who reject the Bible versus those who believe the Bible? That is how many view the origins debate surrounding Genesis. This work attempts to reach the core of the debate at one particular point: the flood as recorded in Genesis.
The Creation Science movement blossomed in the 20th century as a response to the wide acceptance of naturalistic evolution as well as popular old earth creationist perspectives that many deemed as unholy compromise with Darwinism. Practically speaking, the entire Creation Science movement rests on the belief the flood was a global event. Creation Scientists claim this is the direct and unambiguous teaching of the Bible. All geological, anthropological, astronomical and biological data is explained through this axiom. Many conservative, Bible-believing Christians have made this a point of absolute orthodoxy. They see belief in a global flood specifically and the Creation Science paradigm generally as a pillar of the Christian Faith in the modern world. I must admit that this was my belief at one time as well. However, my view changed after embracing covenant thinking which led me to understand New Testament prophecy from a general preterist viewpoint.
I hope to introduce you to a new perspective on the Genesis flood debate, an approach which offers tremendous potential to move the wider Bible-Science debate beyond the entrenched lines of the stalemated conflict we witness today. The following pages are offered as an introduction, not as the last word. What follows is an investigation, not a dogmatic conclusion. Though I am convinced the case is sound, I am also painfully aware of just how many proposals related to Genesis have been born in the last two hundred years with high expectations only to be buried later in unmarked graves in the backwoods of history. Their numbers are great. That sobering historical reality should foster care, temperance, balance, objectivity, and most of all, humility, among all who have an interest in this controversy, regardless of their own position. I offer the following with all humility in light of the messy past. At the same time, I offer it with hopeful confidence that a paradigm shift we can scarcely imagine today awaits us in the future of the Genesis origins debate. The truth will win out in the end: in God’s providence, it always does.
This book is a critique of the main Creation Science presupposition from the perspective of covenant eschatology or what is known broadly as preterism. I hope to demonstrate a methodological, theological and historical correlation between the rise of Creation Science ideology and the prevalence of dispensational theology in America during the 20th century. I hope to convince those who have already abandoned dispensational futurist eschatology in favor of preterism (regardless of any particular brand) of the need to completely re-examine the Creation Science paradigm. As preterism grows to eclipse dispensational futurism in American Christianity, I believe this re-examination will lead naturally to the wholesale abandonment of Creation Science ideas.
This critique of the Creation Science movement is a call to consistency. My argument is simple. It is time for those committed to a general preterist understanding of Matthew 24, 2 Peter 3, and Revelation to think through the logical implications of their beliefs as they relate to the rest of the Bible.
Footnotes:
1. For an excellent overview of the current state of this debate and how it relates to the wider Bible-Science debate see David G. Hagopian, ed., The Genesis Debate: Three Views on the Days of Creation (Mission Viejo: Crux Press, 2001).
To be continued…
Copyright 2005 by Timothy P. Martin. All rights reserved. Reprinted by Permission
[This book will be available through the Planetpreterist bookstore.]
------
Timothy P. Martin is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com. Timothy P. Martin is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com. Tim lives in Whitehall, Montana with his wife and six children. He works a small business in SW Montana and serves as a minister at Covenant Community Church. Tim can be reached via beyondcreationscience.com.
View Timothy P. Martin archives
Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by Virgil on Thursday, December 29 @ 08:04:18 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Tim,
Let me be the first to welcome you as a contributor to Planet Preterist. I believe a lot of people will find your contributions beneficial.
Regarding your first installment, the disagreements over creation, the age of the earth and the flood are quite evident. They are magnified even more when Preterism comes into the picture. That is why, I believe that this debate will be very healthy for us, not just as an insular movement, but as Christians. I am sure you recognize the fact that you are fighting an uphill battle. If Dispensationalists have been hostile to Preterism on the ground of hermeneutic, just wait until you question their holy grail, the global flood. Oh boy...are you asking for a fight :) |
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by Ed on Thursday, December 29 @ 15:36:46 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Tim,
Glad to see that you re-posted this article (I've read it before, and always enjoyed it). It is something that needs to be read and re-read many times.
good stuff
ed
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- by MiddleKnowledge on Friday, December 30 @ 05:14:41 PST
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by doughoist on Thursday, December 29 @ 16:50:08 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | I am interested to find out how preterism can throw a cloud of doubt on the flood. I believe I may have glanced over an article somewhere that said something like this before but did not give it much thought. It would seem to me that at first glance, the preterist view would uphold the veracity of a 6 day creation and a young earth. Preterism upholds that God, the creator of time, can indeed tell time. I always thought that the actual flood, global in nature, was the type for the spiritual flood that was universal in the spiritual realm. If others survived the flood outside of the ark of Genesis, wouldn't that mean that there would be some who would be saved outside of Jesus? Yet "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12, NKJV.
I will be open minded and look into these things further but truly, the destruction of Jerusalem as the end of the "world" is quite a hard camel to swallow for most people.
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- by Ed on Thursday, December 29 @ 18:16:15 PST
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Dispensationalists and Creation Science (Score: 1)
by Mick on Friday, December 30 @ 08:33:39 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | I have struggled with Cration Science for 20+ years. I have never been satisfied with the answers of the "Answers in Genensis" crowd. To me preterism creates a woldview that disproves the young earth position.
So often the young earth crowd starts with the assumption that no death(physical) occured prior to Adam's sin. So they conclude that the scientific evidence must be wrong. They also want there to be no rain until the flood, yet Job reports rain and the existence of Leviathan who was a dinosaur that shoud have been destroyed in the flood(according to young earth folks. The young earth folks seem to want it both ways in the Book of Job.
I have long appreciated the work of John Clayton at Doesgodexist.org. On his site I found this quote by Foy E. Wallace,
"Much argument has been made as to whether the record of Genesis is scientifically correct and historically accurate. Some men in the realm of science complain that the Bible teaches that the earth is only six thousand years of age. But science claims for it a much higher antiquity than that. I recently called upon a man of science for proof that the Bible teaches that the earth is a mere six thousand years old. `Well,' he said, `I just assumed it. I thought this is what religious folks claim.' That is the trouble with some men in the scientific world. They assume too many things. They assume just about everything they say on matters of religion, and they assume some things they say when they are not talking on matters of religion.
"There is no statement in the Bible which indicates the age of the earth. `In the beginning God' is a phrase that defines a period of remote antiquity, hidden in the depths of eternal ages. If the scientists, or the pseudo-scientists, want to ascribe to the earth the age of a million, a billion, or three hundred billion years, I will not pause to argue the question with them now. Let their imagination play on, and their fancy with it, but when they get back to the beginning, it will be the beginning of the first sentence in the Bible, `In the beginning God.' That is all that the Bible affirms on the question.
"I am making no charges against science. There is no conflict between the Bible and science. The word science means to know, and there is not anything any man can prove that he knows that contradicts the Bible. I want to avoid leaving the impression that I am speaking in any derogatory manner against science. The Bible and science go hand in hand. They are halves of the same sphere. Properly considered, they illumine one another. They are co-servants; they support each other.
"But the man of science is not always scientific, and the man in religion is not always biblical. It is when the man of science gets unscientific or the man in religion gets unbiblical, that the clash comes.
"Some pseudo-scientists have much to say about the discords, disagreements and divisions among those who believe the Bible. But the various groups of scientific men, or unscientific men, if you please, tell us that the earth is a million years of age, and then ten million, then a billion, and then ten billion. And now its age has been raised to three hundred billion. If the scientists cannot get any closer together among themselves than the distance between a million and three hundred billion years as to the age of the earth, what right have they to talk of disagreements between others? You may have your billion, your ten billion, or your three hundred billion, but I will take the first sentence in the Bible, `In the beginning God.'"
The entire article is at http://doesgodexist.org/JanFeb01/FoyEWallaceJrGodsPropheticWord.html
Search John site as he has pointed out the problems of disponsationalism and misunderstandings of the Genesis account. I do noot believe John is a preterist, but he has many good things to say on this subject. |
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by mrfullpreterist on Friday, December 30 @ 12:08:48 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Tim,
It's good to see you here again.
I have one question for you. What did God mean when He said "...nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done"? If the flood was not universal, what meaning would this statement have?
Thanks,
Rob |
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How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood??? (Score: 1)
by valensname on Friday, December 30 @ 22:06:07 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Strange...I hadn't heard of really anyone in the Covenant Eschatology or preterist view if you will, hold to a view that doesn't support a young view of the Earth and the Universe. I have only had one problem with "Creatiionists...Does God Exist?...etc.." which has been that they all hold that the Earth will be burned up with fire and try to prove that biblically and scientifically.
And, my there is all kinds of physical evidence that there was a global flood???
I've held a fulfilled view of salvation history for over 10 years and I firmly believe in the 6 literal 24 hour days of Creation, with a young Earth and Universe.
I'd suggest those interested to read the book or watch the video - Starlight and Time: Solving the Puzzle of Distant Starlight in a Young Universe by Dr. Russell Humphrey
Glenn
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If Local/Regional Flood Why Rainbow Global? (Score: 1)
by valensname on Monday, January 02 @ 18:41:17 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | Tim,
I was thinking...if as you suggest on your site, that the flood in Gen 6 was local/regional, why then is a rainbow seen today in North American? Surely the promise of the rainbow in Gen 9 would have been limited to a local land/earth that was effected by a local flood and not the entire planet if it was a local flood only? However, the rainbow is planet wide.
I see problems with your interpretations. The context is clearly global. If you use Scipture that follows to "read" local back into it, yes that is a possible view, but I don't believe the context or common sense (I'm not using my eyes don't see it here) suggest a local flood. I also see your interpretations as being more of a reaction to creation science and evoluation science/modern science and other eschatological views.
What are other Jewish writers views besides Josephus? Don't other cultures, besides Jewish, have the flood as being global?
Glenn |
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by Writerx on Tuesday, January 03 @ 12:50:39 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | From what I recall of the book (which I read a few months ago), there never was the final "blow" to Creation Science. Yes, I agree, it COULD have been local. God COULD be using metaphoric/symbolic language in the creation story.
However, this is precisely my point. All that the author managed to accomplish (from my recollection) is to establish the flimsy either/or notion of what COULD BE, and then assert that we must interpret the global language figuratively because it is used so elsewhere.
Hence why I remain in favor of the literal interpretation. What I did not manage to find in the entire flood story was a SINGLE TIME where the ACTUAL intent of God's word was manifested. There is not a single iota of evidence in that text that would make us want to localize the event. The language is consistant. It starts of with man's heart had become evil and all his works. It is not necessary to assume that this is only a portion of the globe that had this happen. In fact, God repented that he had made man at all, so he decides to wipe them out, except for Noah. Then the language continues on with "all living things" "the face of the earth" "all that creeps on the earth" etc.
I'm not saying that it absolutely could NOT have been local––only that there's yet to be a reason to assume that it should be. God never zooms in on his intended target, and the myth only continues to get rehashed by Peter later on in the NT.
And a brief note on evolution. Okay, here's how it simplifies for me. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm making a mistake here. This process couldn't have happened without a miracle. Matter can't spontaneously spring from nowhere; nonliving things can't produce living things; information is lost in a mutation, not gained, and always results in some kind of damage to the creature.
If it took a miracle, then why not just assume that God created it all in six days as the text plainly reads? In order to get the idea of theistic evolution, you have to have accepted the theory that pagans came up with against all reason in the first place.
It just seems like weak stance to take. You start off by accepting an unscientific, unfounded, unproven and unprovable theory, and then you take that and plant it in the Scriptures contrary to the plain reading of the text, and then proceed to assert that you MUST take the language figuratively.
I'm sorry guys, but you'll have to do a lot better than that. The theology is lacking.
-A.J.
P.S. I have watched about six or seven debates with creationists and evolutionists (both theistic and non)––and as far as it goes with scientific evidence, I feel the creationists have done a much more consistant job. While I still have a lot of questions, there has yet to be a single reason to deny the literal view. Maybe I'll do an article explaining myself a bit more thoroughly. Any conversation is welcome. |
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Correct Summary? (Score: 1)
by valensname on Thursday, January 05 @ 12:21:44 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | After reading the posts and the material at Tim’s website and some of the chapters in The Origins Solution, this is what I understand you to be saying:
Summary
God created the Universe billions of years ago. Big Bang theory and evolution where things have evolved from simple to complex is true (ie., “Ishites” evolved from simple bacteria to “humans”). Then about 6,000 years ago, God created Adam and Eve, a separate act of creation. They were a special creation that God had a covenant with. He placed them in the Garden and Adam named the animals that were in the Garden. The Fall happened. Cain’s mark was for the Ishites not to harm him. Mankind (the Adamites) became evil. I assume then that the “daughters of men” are Ishites and the “sons of God” are Adamites. Then the mixing of them created the giants. “The purpose of the Flood is stated quite clearly as being for the destruction of adam, that is adamites. Ish, that is, the rest of mankind is not to be destroyed.” – JL. So then the Flood was local/regional and destroyed all the animals in that area and all the Adamite line except for Noah and his family. After the flood, Noah continued on the Adamite line and the Ishites continued on and there were still mixed people from before as well, the giants.
“Adamites had exceptionally gorgeous women, Gen. 6:4 and the accounts of Sarah and Rebekah. Adamites matured in 50 years and lived 900+ while Ishites matured in 20 and lived 70. Mixed race Adamite/Ishite lived exceptionally long lives and when grouped as tribes, persisted as giants (fast Ishite growth with slow Adamite maturity.) for nearly two thousand of years, until wiped out by Israel (Deut. 2). This long life gave them an advantage over the pure Ishites around them.
Eventually, the Adamite genes were so diluted as to give no advantage. That is, by the time of Solomon, the giants were wiped out and the Israelites were genetically essentially Ishites not Adamites.
As a preterist, I add. Jesus was the last Adam, covenentally. In AD 70 essentially all of the remaining (but well diluted) Adamite gene stock was destroyed. So literally, the last Adamite died with Jesus' generation.” – JL
Implicatons?
These are some inferences I believe would be results of the following view:
1. Since Genesis refers to man (Adamites) as being destroyed in the Flood and the last Adamite died with Jesus’ generation – then all us humans today are Ishites or sometype of cross between them. Thus people today are all or partially evolved from simple life forms (ie., bacteria?). Is this not what evolutionists are saying? Than humans are no different animals? I’d go to say that since man was destroyed in the Flood, we today, per this view, I suppose aren’t really men? This sounds no better than a so what attitude towards abortion – we are just animals or from bacteria anyway.
2. If the covenant was made to the Adamite line and they all died with Jesus’ generation, then would us not today be part of that covenant? The covenant was only made with them and was completed at the Parousia in AD 70. Thus we today are not in a covenant relationship with God, especially since we aren’t really “man.” We can’t be Christians.
3. So the Ishites, God just made but were no more important to Him than the plants and animals?
4. Where does sin come into play for the Ishites? They must not have even been important enough for Satan to tempt them?
I have to add, this made me laugh, “Adamites had exceptionally gorgeous women…” guess that says all women today can never be a beautiful as Sarah and Rebekah.
I don’t mean for any of this to be offensive, but that is what the above summarized view seems to be saying from my understanding of it.
Glenn
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Re: Beyond Creation Science: How Preterism Refutes a Global Flood and Impacts the Gen (Score: 1)
by JeffE on Wednesday, January 11 @ 22:02:34 PST (User Info | Send a Message) | There's not much unpreterist about basic Creation Science except for the dispensationalism and entropy they tend to espouse, which has nothing much to do with Genesis. I am a six-day Creationist and a preterist. Why doubt certain parts of the Bible? We've got the end down, now let's get our act together on the beginning. Is String Theory incompatible with six-day Creation taking into account relativistic time dilation (away from the earth in outer space) as proposed by Dr. Russell Humphreys? Also, consider the granite radiohalo evidence for a young earth.
-Peace, Jeff |
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