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Exclusive: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement
Posted on Saturday, October 15 @ 14:17:53 PDT by Virgil Vaduva

PlanetPreterist Columns by Virgil Vaduva
Initially I wanted to title this article “Why Preterism will Fail” but it became apparent that it was taking an overly pessimistic tone and since I am not a pessimist by nature I decided to take a more positive approach and point out how what makes Preterism great is also its own undoing.

Preterism is by nature a very confrontational movement. When you realize that just about everything you knew about eschatology and prophecy was wrong, you feel the urge to tell everyone and get everyone to see things the way you are seeing them. When this does not happen, we all become frustrated and even hostile. It is of course natural to feel this way – Preterism can account for a lot more defeats than victories in its history. Nonetheless, the movement is growing. More and more older believers are starting to understand the truth of Covenant Eschatology. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case for the younger generations. And that is because today’s world is not the world in which Preterism was born.

Preterism was born out of a modern paradigm. Modernism is a thought system which was the result of the Renaissance, the Reformation and the Enlightenment. It is not necessarily a bad thing; however the characteristics standing at the core of modernism also go against the grain of today’s society – and I am considering the contemporary implications of Preterism. The Catholic Church has even equated Modernism with Humanistic thought for example, and there seems to be a natural progression from the core characteristics of Modernism (centrality of the individual, reliability of human perception, primacy of reason, and inevitability of progress) to Humanism.

The problem is however that the world is changing and is going into a new age. We do not know what this age is. Some call it Post-Modernism (after Modernism), implying that we are not there yet and that we are perhaps going through a transition period in our human experience. Theology, science, politics, and philosophy are all changing. What we once thought to be truth turned out to be false. Mankind has learned that not everything is possible and that not everything is knowable. Reason can often be used to manipulate truth and human perception is not as reliable as we have assumed. Ultimately our younger generations view the world through a different paradigm. From my own interactions with younger people, I observed that the most notable is that younger people simply do not care what others think about their religion, philosophy and ethics. If a Christian teenager stands firms and does not care about being ridiculed and persecuted for his faith, that is wonderful. If the teenager is a drug addict and ignores please from friends and family for change, that is bad.

The bottom line is that a new paradigm is entering into the world today. People are starting to base their beliefs on the experiential rather than the perceptional. More and more individuals are starting to understand that progress is fragile, and that human perception is a very complex and uncertain phenomenon. Absolutes are no longer solid anchors in the sea of life, and the plurality of worldviews is a fact that affects all of us in a real and tangible way.

So what does all this have to do with Preterism? Quite a bit, I would say. Many Preterists today act as if Preterism is a “God-given movement.” It is not. Preterism is a position one takes regarding Christian eschatology. Preterism is not inspired by God, it does not have popes, inspired authors or apostles. Or perhaps it does have popes, inspired authors and apostles. Regardless, if anyone has ever attended a Preterist “conference” you will notice the lack of young people – they simply are not interested. It is natural therefore to wonder what will happen to Preterism once the popes pass away and the apostles die.

As I read articles and papers about Preterism, I am becoming more and more convinced that what has made Preterism great is no longer working. The “I am right, you are wrong” approach is starting to quickly wear out and become fruitless, with the biggest culprit being the lack of the experiential.

Several weeks back, after the church service, a friend approached me and shared with me some of his struggles. He has been having alcohol problems for many years but has been trying to recover for a while. His wife left him a few years ago and nothing has been right since. He has been praying that God would help him put his life back together and told me that it seems as if God is doing the exact opposite. Just when things get better, his company lays him off. So this goes on and on. He told me with a sad tone that it seems as if in AD 70 God did not come back, instead God left altogether and there is no sight of Him anywhere. This is the ultimate example of how Preterism fails in its application. A Modern movement being used to solve Post-Modern problems simply does not fly.

After thinking about my friend’s problems ever since our conversations, it occurred to me that what he was looking for was not necessarily a theological answer, or some quote from a wise philosopher, or even my assurance that God did indeed come in AD 70. He was just looking for a friend to talk to; someone to share his problems and heartaches with. Nothing more.

Preterism is failing to deliver. What I see more and more from Preterists (which is the height of irony) is an uncanny ability to criticize everyone else and call out what is wrong with others. Sterile theological papers and discourses against other Preterists are the order of the day. That is apparently all today’s Preterism has to offer.

Unfortunately people are looking for something better, something more. Believers are looking to experience God. We need to make them aware of the world around us, which is literally drenched in God. If Preterism is just a race to convince other people to believe like I do, then I want no part of it. More importantly, if Christianity itself is a race to convince people to believe like I do, so we can all end up in a place where the thermostat is on the right setting, then I want no part of it either.

Tomorrow’s generations will likely care little about Preterism. What are you doing to make them aware of God’s presence? How are you showing your love for others, especially other Preterists? If we are truly in the spiritual Eden, how are we showing others the way? Perhaps the ancient Jewish proverb rings more true than ever today: A person’s good deeds are used by God as seeds to plant the very trees of Eden.

------

Virgil Vaduva is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.

View Virgil Vaduva archives

Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.


 
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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by Andre on Saturday, October 15 @ 15:42:22 PDT
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I agree with you wholeheartedly. The same comments can be made regarding Calvinism in some respects. We almost exclusively engage in trying to "convert" chrisitans to our own paradigm (which is something that I battled when I first embraced Calvinism). We get so rapped up in orthodoxy and forget about the doing portion of Christianity. We identify with the titles (I am a Calvinist, I am a Arminian, I am a Pantelist, I am CG, I am ad nauseum) so much and we forget that we are Christians FIRST AND FOREMOST. The same Jesus who uttered the words in Mat 24, uttered the words of Mat 1-23 and the words that appear in the concluding chapters. The same John who wrote I John 2.2, wrote what Christianity looks like between the brethren, love (and all its qualities, see I Cor 13) is clearly expressed among them. The same Paul that wrote the puzzling words about the Restrainer and expounded upon the mystery, also wrote laundry lists of fruits of the spirit and about bearing each others burdens. Preterism has turned over the apple cart, but that doesn't mean we cease to be Christians to each other and the non believer as we try to put the apples back onto the cart. I readily admit that when I first embraced preterism, I went from understanding a lot of the Scriptures to being unsure of a lot, but I know of no preterists who hold to the idea that the fruits of the spirit ceased in AD 70. Or maybe they did, just kidding :+)


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by daveedwards on Saturday, October 15 @ 18:37:51 PDT
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Virgil - much of what I see that is wrong with today's "Spirit-Filled" Church is the over emphasis on the experiential. Instead of delighting in the simple truth of the Gospel, many are on a constant search for "chills and thrills" - "Goosebump Theology". They look to get their "tanks filled" by going from one "experience" with God to another. I once heard a preacher say that the reason most Churches have Wednesday night services is their congregations couldn't make it through the week without another "touch" from God.

Too much of their lives are built on hoping they are right - right about the rapture, right about the Devil, right about the gifts. What Preterism should offer is the expressed knowledge that what Jesus set out to do - He did! It's all true and that we're not waiting for anything else.

The majority of Christians walk about crippled these nagging "hopes" whereas the Preterists should be walking in the truth of fulfillment. With what we see happening in the world - floods, earthquakes, et al - we have a wonderful opportunity walk out our fulfilled faith. I for one seek to hold my head high with everyone including my futurist friends looking for doom and gloom. Some relish its coming thinking it hastens the Day of the Lord. I once preached that we should be more excited about God's Omnipresence than His "manifest presence". I choose to seek to experience the moment by moment and not just the mountain top.

Every great movement has its pioneers that suffer in the wilderness and then a great throng follows thinking they have found something new. You know the scripture about one planting and one harvesting or about finding wells that you didn't dig? I believe this movement, with all its squabling, fights and name-calling it where it should be. This is all uncharted territory, but what an exciting time.

Let's just press on - sow, sow, sow, sow - and let God worry of the harvest. I once heard that "Worry is Atheism" - I choose to believe...

David William Edwards


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by Paige on Saturday, October 15 @ 19:09:03 PDT
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Virgil,

Excellent words. What I'm seeing played out in preterism is that we are still learning the lessons that the OC was given to teach... Eat from the tree of knowledge and die. Knowledge doesn't make us better able to love our neighbors and our enemies, it puffs us up and makes us think we have something with which to one-up the rest of the world.

If we lose sight of the depth, breadth, and the height of God's love, and instead focus on book, chapter, and verse; how are we any better than those very same blind pharisees of the first century?

I don't think it is an unfortunate thing that believers and unbelievers are looking for experience. It may be the very thing that forces those of us with the fulfilled view to come down out of our towers, roll up our sleeves, and help our fellow mankind to understand and KNOW the only true God.

Paige


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The Continuing Need for Truth and Wisdom (Score: 1)
by SuperSoulFighter on Sunday, October 16 @ 02:31:38 PDT
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Excellent thoughts, above, Virgil. I tend to agree with most of what you shared in your article, and would only add that the tangible, beneficial results and product of Full Preterism (a recommitment to the original Truth and meaning of Scripture as God intended it to be understood) SHOULD be a lifestyle characterized by His Wisdom. Grace, coupled with the courage to forthrightly and unequivocally stand by our convictions, is the order of the day.

Our youth today are essentially "entertained to death". If it's not visually entertaining and stimulating, they don't have much time for it. Hence the move towards "live concert" formats for "church" services. Preterism - as an internal, spiritual awakening to Truth - doesn't have all of the bells and whistles so loved and cherished by today's "media junkies" (there are no Full Pret "ring tones" for cell phones yet that I'm aware of - but maybe there SHOULD be), but it DOES pack the solid punch of Ultimate Reality.

Young people today need, as much as ever, a fresh acquaintance with God's Truth and wisdom. He is the only unchanging, perceptual "ground" (to borrow a little from McLuhan). So we need make no apologies for our "dull, dry theological navel-gazing" (if that's how they initially perceive it). Sooner or later (probably sooner), the deeper understanding of life and God shared by Preterist Christians will manifest itself more publicly as the truest, most intrinsically satisfying perspective on God and His inter-relationships with man, in existence today. God simply wants us to acquaint ourselves with Who He REALLY is - not who some "pastor" would like everyone to believe that He is.


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by Ivan on Monday, October 17 @ 00:58:59 PDT
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Thank you for your article, Virgil. I too have concerns about the future of preterism which may overlap with yours. While we fight over matters such as universalism instead of promoting the central and liberating truths of preterism, we will never win the non-preterist.
It seems to me that the best advertisement for the movement would be preterists whose lives are significant because of their beliefs and whose impact for the kingdom of God is also significant. As a preterist, I need to ask myself: Is my life any different, any better, because of my beliefs? Do the dispensationalists live more sanctified lives than I do? Do preterist churches extend the kingdom of God more than non-preterist churches?

Two texts are relevant for all of us:

1. Romans 14:1: "The kingdom of God is not about meat and drink but about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Have we been sidetracked to "meat and drink" issues and lost our focus on kingdom living?

2. 1 Cor 4:20: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power."

We are doing a lot of talking through articles, conferences, and websites. Well and good, but perhaps we need less conversation and more demonstration.



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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by rfwitt (hifive@att.net) on Monday, October 17 @ 02:54:51 PDT
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If Preterism is true (as I believe it is) time will be our ally. What will Christians do as the world goes on hundreds and thousands of years from now. They will seek to know the truth. Our work is to be a light shining in darkness. The kingdom of God has come. Like the mustard seed it is growing and will fill the earth (not because I say so but because Gods' will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven). Read Phillip Jenkins book "The Next Christendom" to see how it is growing in other parts of thw world. As for us we should be about our Masters business.
Richard...........


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by Didaskomenos (didaskomenos@yahoo.com) on Monday, October 17 @ 10:46:34 PDT
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I'm more excited about preterism than ever. I'm fairly young (27) and my closest friends, some of whom are up to 3 years younger than me, are also preterists, and we're excited. Why? Because we've escaped modernism.

See, part and parcel of modernism is the WYSIWYG mentality: "What you see is what you get". All things unverified by empirical science are figments of the imagination. Although the Bible might indeed say that Jesus has come and established His kingdom, it doesn't match the facts on the ground, and thus preterism doesn't pass modernistic muster.

Whatever faults post-modernism has, the basic fundamental of post-modernism lays the groundwork for having a personal faith that doesn't have to match what everyone else is seeing. It is my experience with a personal savior that has made me a believer. Somewhere else on here, daveedwards stated that it's theology that brings us through the "dark night of the soul," and the belief that "He loves me and He'll never leave me" is what we hold on to when we're in that depressing stage of not "experiencing God". But those words only comfort you because you have the experience of knowing the love of God and the peace it brings. That's experiencing God, and it's the very bedrock of our faith. The difference between hearing that statement above and hearing "King Kong loves you and King Kong'll never leave you" is the very fact of your having known God in an experiential fashion and your undeniable lack of experience with the personage of King Kong. There are other religions with well-crafted dogma, but we believe Christianity not because we like its doctrines better, but because there is a Person we have met on the other side of those doctrines. It's the experience that keeps on experiencing!

Therefore, I can know that God is on His throne right now because I know Him personally. This personal testimony aspect is the most essential part of sharing Christianity, and preterism's got it in spades. Every one of my friends can testify to a new vigor for life and sharing the gospel since coming to know the truth of preterism. If you're not seeing the results of this burgeoning of preterist belief, just hang on. Don't give up yet!

D. Stephen Douglas


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Post-modernism is not an answer (Score: 1)
by JL (jl@planetpreterist.com) on Tuesday, October 18 @ 10:35:29 PDT
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Virgil,

What is post-modernism? McLaren refuses to answer. He claims it's different from modernism. He claims conservatism is one form of modernism. He claims liberalism is another form of modernism.

McLaren also makes claims about what conservatism is and liberalism is. He's busy defining other people but refuses to define himself.

McLaren's definition of conservatism might apply to some Fundamentalists and some Calvinists, but it doesn't apply to most of us. His definition of liberalism doesn't apply to any liberals I know.

And the email one of his organizations sent me yesterday, a supposed bastion of post-modern thinking, was urging me to call my senators and tell them "As a person of faith, I would like," them to execute a laundry list of liberal agenda items.

So in McLaren's lingo, post-modernism in action is identical to Democrat activism.

I agree that modernism, as defined by McLaren, has insoluble problems. But post-modernism as McLaren refuses to define but demands people act upon in his particular manner is not the solution either.

McLaren's post-modernism is just another way to get to the socialism you left years ago.

After you throw out McLaren's socialism, what's left? Modernism means Boomer churches and post-modernism means Gen-X churches. So what else is new? The 33-year olds want to run their own church their way and don't want the 46-year olds to interfere. I saw that happen when I was 33. I saw it happen 13 years before that. It will happen again 13 years from now.

Your post-modernism is just another power struggle by people claiming to be different than those who came before. What's different? The tattoos? It's certainly not the attitudes.

JL


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by mrfullpreterist on Wednesday, October 19 @ 16:32:21 PDT
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Just in case any of you are curious as to who this friend is that Virgil spoke to, it is me. I have been through a very trying and faith shaking experience over the last several years. I really have come to understand that the greatest truth any of us can be filled with is "Jesus loves me! This I know!". I think I'm going to keep it that simple for quite a while. I hope I can pull through all the confusion and wind up fulfilling all that God has planned for me.

Thanks for your prayers Virgil and all.

Robert L. Statzer

ps. Virgil, I will try and call you this weekend.


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Re: Modernism and Preterism: The Undoing of a Great Movement (Score: 1)
by Duncan on Saturday, October 22 @ 09:32:58 PDT
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For me what keeps preterism from being just an intellectual exercise are verses like the following.

Dan. 7:21-22
I was watching and the same [little] horn was making war against the saints and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

27. Then the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.

The kingdom of God (the spiritual rule of this planet) was given to believers at the AD 70 Coming of God (the Second Coming cf. Rev. 19:11-21). We believers are the spiritual ruling force on this planet today. God's plan is to rule with and through us. This knowlege tells us that we are not on the sidelines, we are smack in the middle of the game and maybe we should get off our duffs and see what God wants to be doing through us today.

I would think this message, that we are the ruling spiritual force of this planet (under the direction of our Father of course), would excite and energize both young and old.

Duncan


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