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Prophecy Fulfilled and God's View of You
by Terry Hall
Every day that passes brings more joy and power as we realize the fulfillment of all God’s promises. Understanding the fall of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. and the establishment of God’s new temple is helping us see how rich we’ve become! The greatest gift one person can give another is himself/herself. Through the atoning work of the messiah God has done just that; he’s given himself to us. Can you think of a more valuable gift? Every day that passes brings more joy and power as we realize the fulfillment of all God’s promises. Understanding the fall of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. and the establishment of God’s new temple is helping us see how rich we’ve become! The greatest gift one person can give another is himself/herself. Through the atoning work of the messiah God has done just that; he’s given himself to us. Can you think of a more valuable gift? There are many wives who receive flowers and stuff from their husbands when they really need him. Many kids need their Dad a lot more than they need a bicycle or a candy bar. The prodigal son wanted his father’s stuff, but had little use for his father…for a while. Later, when the wheels fell off, he realized having his father was way better than just having his father’s stuff. And God could have left us in the pigpen of our own making, but he didn’t. He yearned to bring us home, and home is where he is.
The Jewish temple served as a teaching device to illustrate man’s separation from the presence of God. The curtain of that separation between the Holy Place and the Holy Of Holies gave a visualization of the effect of man’s sin. “By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the sanctuary is not yet opened as long as the outer tent is still standing (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper…” (Heb. 9:8&9). The message of the first temple: you are separated from the presence of God by your sin. The message of the cross and the immediate tearing of the curtain: God was now making a way to be restored to his presence through Jesus. The message of Hebrews 10:19-22: The first century Christians were about ready to pass through the veil of separation into the very presence of God. The message of Ephesians 2:19-22: that body of believers (Christ’s church) who had become disciples of Jesus and been purified by his atoning blood were being prepared to be a new temple which would be God’s dwelling place. The message of the destruction of Jerusalem and the physical temple: The law could never restore anyone to fellowship with God. Its temple graphically portrayed that reality through the centuries. This picture is also set forth in the typology of Moses and Joshua. Did you ever wonder why Moses, the lawgiver, was not permitted to lead God’s people into the promise land? We certainly noticed it was Joshua (Jesus if you want to say it in Greek) who actually fulfilled the promise of bringing them back to land of their father (typological Abraham). Now that covenant and its temple are gone, replaced by the messiah’s covenant and His new temple where the presence of God has been restored. John foresaw that golden moment a few short years before the Romans accomplished that destruction and said “… I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them’;” (Rev. 21:3). This is clearly the climax of the preceding prophetic upheaval (Revelation 9-20), which describes the approaching destruction of all that Christ-rejecting Israel held dear and the triumph of all the working of the Messiah.
So if someone says to me “Oh, you just believe Revelation is about Jerusalem being destroyed…” I must say “contraire, contraire”. It is about the greatest change the world has seen since the fall in the garden. It is about a new spiritual reality in which we’ve been restored to fellowship with the God who made us. Take off your shoes; you’re standing on holy ground!
Now, it occurs to me that he working through the centuries to bring this about says something regarding how he feels about us. After all, he wanted this fellowship between him and us before we did. There is a lot of stuff communicated in the parable of the prodigal son. I suppose the father could have said, “you’ve been in the pig pen; you’re filthy and you stink to high heaven. Don’t be thinking about coming ‘round here.” The son had realized having his father was more valuable than having his father’s stuff. He had thought about this and chose to go home to see how his father felt about things. And we watch the mental videotape as we read…we see the father catching sight of his long absent son and, unable to contain himself, running to embrace him. We keenly notice the father’s attitude isn’t “You stink, get away”, but “I’m so glad you decided to come home…let me clean you up. Come on in…it’s so good to have you home.”
The way we feel about ourselves has a lot to do with how we live. The way the most important people in our lives feel about us can greatly impact how we feel about ourselves, for good or ill. God’s fulfillment of his promises to make it possible for us to be restored to him says he wants us. He sees us as desirable, of great worth. Worth the highest of prices, a price he was actually willing to pay. The prodigal wanted to come home, but the father wanted him home even more. Could you picture alienated sons and daughters today eagerly making their way back home knowing that Dad is going to tell them how rotten they’ve been and always will be? And how the only reason they’ll even have a place to stay is because he’s so great even though they’re so rotten? The message I get from God making it possible for us to be restored to his presence is “ I know you see the bad in you and all your failures and all the reasons I might not want you. But I see the good in you, and all the possibilities I placed within you. You may not see much in yourself…you may look and see so little. But bring your five loaves and two fish to me and watch what happens!”
I realize some people, some preachers, some theology sees you and I as worthless. God sees us as worth everything. And when we begin to believe this, we begin to see ourselves differently. We begin to have more self-worth, not in arrogance of our pride, but in deep humility because of his love. And when this happens in a man’s life he doesn’t sell himself cheaply, for he realizes he is one of the sons of God.
We often talk about being "in God's presence." What does this mean exactly? This is one area that I have been giving a lot of thought to lately. Is God's presence an intellectual realization, or is it experiential? In some ways, it seems to me, God's presence was more experiential in the garden and under the Old Covenant. For example, God neither talks to me nor does he manifests himself to me.
My understanding of the presence of God, at this point in my studies, is that it is actual and relational. Let me set this up for my explanation. When I sinned in my life, prior to becoming a disciple of the Christ, I was seperated from God by that sin...like Adam was...like all who subsequently lived and sinned (Is. 59:2 & Rom. 3:23). Since God is omnipresent that seperation was not geographical or physical. That seperation is the spiritual death warned about in the garden and referred to by Paul in Eph.2:1. It was illustrated by the tabernacle and temple layout, i.e.- the curtain seperated the typological presence of God in the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place and all men (save the High Priest one day per year). The seperation by sin is not a physical seperation, Moses and Abraham had close encounters of the best kind with God, yet were seperated by their sin. Sin death is a broken relationship. A husband & wife may live at the same geographical address and be emotionally and relationally a thousand miles apart. My seperation from God, my spiritual death, was actual. My relationship with him was broken. Jesus paid the price on the cross to tear the curtain of seperation and make a way back, not geographically, but relationally, to God. See Hebrews 9. The first century brethren (first fruits) were cleansed in their obedience to Christ (Eph. 5) to be a sancified dwelling for the returning presence of God. They were about to pass through that torn curtain (the real one- the spiritual one) as spoken of in Hebrews 10. The sign of the return of the Christ with the presence of the Father was the fall of the temple (Hebrews 8:1-10:37). This is the basis of the approaching celebration of the City of the Living God in Hebrews 12. The dwelling of God would be restored to men and the law system, unable to cleanse from sin with its animal sacrifices, would be done away, and with its passing its power to keep one spiritually dead ( Hebrews 7 and Hebrews 10). When Christ returned with the father to dwell in the new temple (Eph. 2:18-21) those who had received the Christ were that new temple and received his actual presence...they were made alive,i.e.-resurrected (see 1 Cor. 15:50-58). The dwelling of God was with men (i.e.-the saints who were that new temple)-Rev.212:3. The active presence of God in the lives of believers (as we have now been reconciled-resurrected-saved-etc.-is described in 2 Cor. 6:16-18 as a very pro-active father involved in the lives of his children. I realize this is becoming an article. I think I'll put the rest of this in an article, because its a great and important question. Check that 2 Cor. 6:16-18 and meditate on what all that may mean. It is our present reality. My relationship with God has actually been restored. He is so close to me, there is no air in between. Before I ask in prayer he is in motion to answer (Is. 65). More to come. God bless you beyond your dreams.
That'll preach brother! Thanks for the article.. Relationship over religion, grace over sin, life over death....What a Savior!!
"For example, God neither talks to me nor does he manifest himself to me."
Is this true? Or, could we say that God speaks to us everyday in the ordinary circumstances of life that we find ourselves in? Is the life we live a process of learning to discern His voice, and see Him at work in these things?
The trouble with looking backward is many-fold. We have the 20/20 hindsight of knowing how it ends, but those living through it did not. Can we even begin to understand what was going on inwardly in each one as they walked the path God laid for them? Not being able to know these things, can we really come to the conclusion that their connection with God was more experiential? Added to that is the reality that for the FEW that experienced God under the OC, how many ever felt a personal connection at all? Will we ever know? I just don't see how we can ever compare our experiences with theirs.
The amazing thing about life each day for me is that God loves and accepts me just as I am because of Christ's victory. He is here and and accessible.
Paige:
...could we say that God speaks to us everyday in the ordinary circumstances of life that we find ourselves in? Is the life we live a process of learning to discern His voice, and see Him at work in these things?
Hi Paige
I like the sentiment. However, I would prefer the occasional "burning bush" rather than relying on my own discernment of God's activities :)
That being said, I've also wondered whether the OT records of God's actions were as apparent to the "eye-witnesses" as they appear to be on the printed page.
Thanks for discreetly correcting my grammar. I caught that extra 's' as soon as I hit the 'ok' button ;)
Dear Jer, I agree with Paige, in that, the fulfillment of the promise of the parousia brought great joy in His "presence".
Today, the rule and reign of Christ in our mind and heart brings tremendous peace and comfort in a strife filled material world. We walk by faith in His kingdom with the full realization that He is faithful to His children at all times.
To me, His Presence opens the gates to all the spiritual riches that we possess in Christ, today.
In Christ, dave
Dave:
Today, the rule and reign of Christ in our mind and heart brings tremendous peace and comfort in a strife filled material world.
Hi Dave
Thanks for your comment. Are you saying God's presence is an intellectual realization? In other words, God's presence is what we make of it? Still pondering...
Here is how I would express this: It is an intellectual realization of an actual reality. It isn't "what we make of it". It is our awareness being prompted by factual information. And the factual information is true whether I'm aware of it or not. If I'm in a hospital room following an accident and my eyes are bandaged, I may be wondering when the doctor will arrive to begin the process of changing my situation. Don't press this metaphor too far, but let's say the doctor has arrived and is doing things I can't see because my eyes are bandaged. I say to someone "When will he arrive and begin working with me?" And that person answers " He's already here and those noises you hear in the background...well, that's him...he's already begun working with you." Now my awareness of an actual reality changes my perception of the whole situation; it isn't just me making up a scenario to feel beter.
Thank you all for thinking about these things. This is where much good can come to us all, by helping each other with questions and discussions. "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
Terry
Hi Terry
I appreciate your comments. Why is it that God's presence is so nebulous? The whole purpose of the book, in my understanding, was to chronicle how God reconciled man to himself, to bring man back into his "presence." God's presence is a central theme. Why can't we elucidate what it "means" outside of soteriology? I have more (rhetorical) questions than answers at this point... which is typical :)
I don't see his presence as nebulous at all. See my comment below, which was posted Sept. 19. I feel bad if those comments seem nebulous also, but they seem quite specific to me.
Dear Jer,
I would describe God's presence as a spiritual realization of His moment by moment activity in our lives, based on our assurance of His promises and character.
This inner assurance or reality is impossible to grasp apart from faith and obedience.The great thing is that we don't need a physical manifestation to bear witness that He is with us and passionately in love with us.We have the inner witness of His presence to encourage and shape us into His likeness experientially.
I think we are spiritual beings primarily, clothed with a temporal body of flesh... so the spiritual is a more dominant witness than any physical manifestation could be. I am also still pondering..Dave
AMEN!
What he said
Terry
Jeremy, I am with you brother. I think beyond the important question of "what does it all mean?" I would ask "what does it DO?" I used to say that "God's presence = life" but it occured to me that God was with Adam and Eve after they sinned. He comforted them and told them how to make clothing and tools. God was with Cain after he killed his brother and God's mark on Cain protected him from harm.
Virgil:
I would ask "what does it DO?"
Jer:
Exactly! These kind of questions trouble me. What appreciable difference is there in everyday living? Why must conversations with God be one-sided? Why does God seem to be conspicuously absent, experiencially? Is it just me? :)
Jer,
You are most certainly not alone. I, also, have wondered for years that if this is the fulfillment of the New Heaven and Earth, it's a bust.
That's the biggest charge leveled against preterism by my futurist friends. They are looking for a time in wich God is experienced first-hand. I'm trying to explain that this is all there is.
Waidmann
It was never intended to be "seen" or "experienced" as readily as we may think...that's why Jesus said that those who will believe and not see will be greatly blessed. It is a relational matter and I believe that as humans we long for an experiential relation. But is it not true that perhaps all of us have experienced God firsthand, in a very tangible way? How many believers have been redeemed from a life of addiction to drugs, alcohol, and sin, and who knows where you and I would be today without this relationship?
"...perhaps all of us have experienced God firsthand, in a very tangible way?"
Yes, quite possible. I guess this raises the question how our lives are different from the Old Testament Israelites. Exactly how "un-Spirit-lead" were they? Were they totally without the promptings of the HS? Did they feel no "guilt" resulting from their sins? I wonder if the sons of Judah felt no guilt for killing the sons of Schekem (or whoever they were). David apparently didn't feel bad about killing Uriah until Nathan fingered him.
Maybe we hope for and expect more because we really don't realize how little pre-Parousia people had.
Waidmann
Right, we also don't realize how things were with Satan on the loose. Imagine the world with demons running around creating all kinds of mischief and problems and now being free from that (at least as far as I can see).
No, it's not just you Jeremy. I think about this stuff all the time. What if the conversation is not really one-sided as you very well said it. Perhaps the relationship is not as much me-to-God as it is us-to-God? What if God said all he had to say, the most important thing to say to us in AD 70?
I mean, what else do you think that has to be said?
Yeah,
Great article.
And, to me, the Book of Acts demonstrates God's presence in an experiential way that surpases the Old Covenant with all of its behavioral cues and emotive conditioned responses. The Acts probably surpase the Garden, too. But, too often, Preterists will say that that's not for us, and ended at 70 AD or when the last Apostle died.
Maybe that's just the anti-charismatic baggage from various fundamentalist orientations that many Preterists come out of. I'll agree, though, that there is no visible movement of God's Spirit through Christians like was exhibited in the early Church, and there's no persecution, either.
Many here know that my theory about why that is, is because I think Christians are steeped (unconciously) in idolatry to the State, beginning at least since the Clergy became a State corporation under Caesar Constantine around 312 AD, as that was when the Roman State stopped persecuting Separatist Christians so long as the Clergy ensured that Christian would then begin killing for Caesar on the battlefield, because his Empire was in shambles.
So, historically speaking, Caesar infused the Body of Christ into the Body of the State, since the Clergy-elite was given State power and position. That saved the World System, but it neutralized the Church. Too bad that the Church was duped, since the World System was on the ropes gasping for air.
Dark Ages, Wars, and Inquisitions followed the State and its Incorporated Church.
Things are relatively unchanged since 312 AD.
Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone
This sounds all to fimiliar. Your VIEWPOINT leads back to salvation by work.
Unless one becomes a sovereign he cannot enjoy "full" fellowship with YHWH.
Best Regards,
Chef Tony
Chef Tony
No, Tony,
How silly of you to say that.
The political/patriot term "sovereign" was never suggested. Although, the methodology of personnally renouncing and separating (not geographically) from a hostile World System while announcing citizenship (as in Baptism) and allegiance to Christ's fully established Kingdom may seem similar to some of the Sovereignity Movements, but it's not the same thing at all. Christ is Sovereign in His Kingdom, and His servants are the servants of His Will, and not sovereigns of their own.
So, you get to choose whose slave you'll be: Caesar's or Christ's. And there's a cost imposed by both masters. So, maybe you haven't made up your mind which master you'll serve, because you cannot effectively serve two masters. And, be advised, Caesar will persecute those who do choose Christ and His Kingdom on the Earth, because Caesar is a jealous "god" too.
Or, do you really need the 1st Commandment to lead you out of Darkness?
To agree with the Bible in saying "Depart from Iniquity" (2Tim. 2:19) is not espousing salvation by works.
Do you really want to espouse, "Continue in Wickedness"?
The concept of Departing from Iniquity as a sensible modus operandi to effective positive change is really a no-brainer.
God is holy (separated), and it is within the nature of new creatures in Christ to be holy too, and to want be holy. There are no works involved in that.
Flowers bloom; birds fly; the Body of Christ Departs from Iniquity...
Peace to you,
C. Livingstone
Christian,
I’ve always been curious about your statements regarding the relationship between Christianity and the state. I’ve always viewed what happened in Constantine’s time as an amalgamation between the Church and “the world” (i.e. the world system, its values, standards, morals, paganism, politics, etc.) This may include concepts you refer to as well.
How would you describe the manifestation of this union of Christianity and the state today?
Zerub
Hey, Zerub,
Thanks for asking. Many here have heard my take on this subject.
Like I said, it's Idolatry (unconcious, or semi-unconscious), in my opinion. Or, call it Spiritual High Treason against the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
Of course, it's not High Treason for those who never had an Allegiance to the present reality of Christ's Kingdom on Earth, today. Idolators are ignorant of their condition, they really believe they worship God. They have been conditioned to salute flags and give unthinking responses like, "Give Unto Casesar... that's what Jesus taught in the Bible." So, it makes sense when Christ said that people are shocked to hear Him say "I never knew you."
That much is obvious to even the non-Christian onlookers?
It doesn't take a spiritual genius to figure out that the State is a degenerate Beast Mind at it's core, with parasitic egos mindlessly executing acts of violence, coercion, and theft of property. The Lordship of Caesar is for the Legion of the Damned.
The difference between a slave and a captive is that a slave requires no chains to keep him in bondage.
Peace to you,
C. Livingstone
Years ago I read a booklet by John R. Rice about "patriotism". He gave examples from the Civil War of godly Christians. He mentioned Lincoln (or maybe some Union general, I'm not sure) and Confederate general Robert E. Lee. Both men were held up as examples of how a Christian should be "patriotic". I remember thinking, "There's something wrong with this picture!" I wondered, "How could both men be in submission to the Lord while leading armies to slaughter one another?" I guess they were "just following orders"!!!!!!!!!!
Zerub
Well,
Both of those men were not just following orders, they were giving the orders.
But, the rule of Satan functions on the ignorance of slave minds and order-takers.
The Bible tells us to depart from iniquity.
You see, that's why even an idiot can be a Christian. But, most North Americans are heavily condition to respond like Pavlovian dogs every time a flag is waved or a partiotic song is played, etc.
Peace to you,
Christian
Good article Terry that is what the preterist view is really all about (the presence of God)