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by Duncan McKenzie Tony in his article "Needs Convincin" posed a very important question. Basically it is, what is the relevance of preterism today in terms of how we Christians live our lives and impact our world? I decided that this question is important enough to deserve a small column.
Tony---
You have raised a very important question and I think it is getting lost in the pro/con talk about America. Let me quote the question you raise that I think is most important.---
".. I keep asking myself when reading articles and blogs on this site if anyone has anything to say about how all this theology is to be worked out in practise, what difference does it make to our lives or to our planet. Most of the contributers are American and it discourages me to think that christian men and women who live in the most feared and disliked nation in the world seem only concerned with their own spiritual existence and not with the absolute mess they are creating all over the globe. It time you all got your heads from out of your behinds and faced reality, weither or not you believe in the second coming,or the ressurection of the dead etc: there is an awful lot of Jesus's teaching that isn't being applied in our world, show me how preterism can be relevant to the needs of this planet and it's inhabitants and if you convince me ..I'll join up."---
Other than the America bashing part, this is a very important question. What does preterism mean in terms of how we as Christians should be living our lives today? You are right, this question isn't addressed much by preterists.
Basically the implications of the fact that the Second Coming happened in AD 70 are that the saints (all believers in Jesus) were given the spiritual rule of this planet at that time.
Consider Daniel 7:15-27----
15 "I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings F22 which arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.' 19 Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows. 21 I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom. 23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. 24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute F23 the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. 26 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'---
The fourth beast was Rome (some would say Greece, but that would mean that the kingdom of God was fully established in the 2nd century BC; that doesnt fit.) Without getting bogged down in who the little horn was (I am writing a book on that), it was at the Second Coming (Dan. 7:22) that the saints were given the kingdom of God (the spiritual rule of this planet). This is also shown in Revelation. The one who overcame (i.e. stayed true to Jesus to the time of His Second Coming cf.Rev. 12:11) would be given power over the nations.
Rev. 2:26
"And he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end to him I will give power over the nations."
This same concept of entering into rule with Jesus over the nations is found in Revelation 3:21
"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
Too often preterists give the sense that everything ended at AD 70. The truth is that the believer's kingdom reign in this world fully started at that time; the kingdom reign was fully given to the believer at AD 70. Let me quote Dan. 7:22 and 27 again.---
22. ...the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High and the time came for the siants to possess the kingdom.
27"Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'"---
So how do we reign with Jesus. I would say that we do so by prayer, sharing God's word and sharing God's love (in both word and deed). I think the primary way we reign is by prayer. I believe the essence of prayer is still that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If all we do is pray however then we are not doing enough. I believe that we are also called to make a tangible difference in our world. That is why I say we share God's love in both word and deed. We all have different ways we can do this right where we are at.
What preterists should be doing today is getting off our behinds, getting on our knees and then going out and making a practical difference in our world. If we don't do this then our preterism is mostly a mental exercise. Tony, assuming you are a Christian, you should be doing the same thing. Do a little less America bashing and a lot more praying. By the way Tony, this column was not really meant to convince you; it is more to admonish my preterist brethren. God Bless.
Duncan
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Duncan McKenzie is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com. Duncan has Masters and Ph.D degrees in Psychology and currently lives in Los Angeles, California.
View Duncan McKenzie archives
Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.
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Re: What is the Relevance of Preteism Today? (Score: 1)
by Writerx on Saturday, August 27 @ 20:06:54 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Put some spaces in there. Do the at the beginning of every paragraph.
Good column!
-A.J. |
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- by Duncan on Sunday, August 28 @ 08:59:46 PDT
- by Writerx on Sunday, August 28 @ 09:55:52 PDT
- by Virgil on Sunday, August 28 @ 16:05:51 PDT
Re: What is the Relevance of Preterism Today? (Score: 1)
by mitchg on Sunday, August 28 @ 08:17:26 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Welcome insight, Duncan.
I was having a conversation with my mom last evening, disclosing my preterist beliefs (my mother is a futurist), and one of her questions was "so if what you believe is true, then what are Christians supposed to do now?"
You've addressed that point very clearly, and I for one am very appreciative. Wish I had had this post last evening!
In Christ -
Mitch G. |
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- by Duncan on Sunday, August 28 @ 09:23:11 PDT
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Re: What is the Relevance of Preterism Today? (Score: 1)
by ThomasS on Sunday, August 28 @ 11:51:02 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Duncan,
You wrote:
"The fourth beast was Rome (some would say Greece, but that would mean that the kingdom of God was fully established in the 2nd century BC; that doesnt fit.)"
I am not able to see how you can reach this conclusion. According to the Book of Daniel, God's kingdom would be established *after* the fall of the fourth kingdom. Which in fact excludes your identification of the fourth kingdom with the Roman Empire.
Regards
Thomas S. |
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- by Duncan on Sunday, August 28 @ 18:21:07 PDT
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- by Duncan2 on Monday, August 29 @ 09:47:05 PDT
- by Duncan on Monday, August 29 @ 20:19:12 PDT
- by ThomasS on Tuesday, August 30 @ 00:30:35 PDT
- by Duncan on Wednesday, August 31 @ 10:36:32 PDT
- by ThomasS on Wednesday, August 31 @ 11:49:06 PDT
- by Duncan on Wednesday, August 31 @ 20:51:15 PDT
- by ThomasS on Wednesday, August 31 @ 23:38:14 PDT
Re: What is the Relevance of Preterism Today? (Score: 1)
by Sam on Sunday, August 28 @ 15:08:11 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | Duncan,
This is where the preterist Weltenshaunng comes into play and why I can draw off of a great deal of postmillennial thinking and reconstruction. Preterist philosophy and theology need not abandon the entire Christian/historic enterprise when it comes to economics (Adam Smith - Gary North), politics (Abraham Kuyper/ Herman Dooyeweerd), religious freedom (Bastiot/William Black), penology and criminal law (Rushdoony, Gary DeMar). Preterism offers a view without an end. I reject Open Theism, but preterism does support Open Futurism. It's a bright day and coming of Jesus gives us an optimistic and powerful view to elimate hunger, war (Isaiah 2.1-5), greed (checks and balances), poverty and the like.
Samuel Frost
www.christcovenantchurch.com
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- by jaredcoleman on Sunday, August 28 @ 15:46:50 PDT
- by Virgil on Sunday, August 28 @ 16:04:39 PDT
- by Duncan on Sunday, August 28 @ 17:34:08 PDT
- by Sam on Monday, August 29 @ 08:34:38 PDT
- by ThomasS on Monday, August 29 @ 03:32:33 PDT
- by Sam on Monday, August 29 @ 08:36:17 PDT
- by Duncan2 on Monday, August 29 @ 09:21:06 PDT
Re: What is the Relevance of Preterism Today? (Score: 1)
by frog on Tuesday, August 30 @ 14:36:33 PDT (User Info | Send a Message) | From Tony alias Frog,
You're absolutely right Duncan that over on the page devoted to my discourse with Virgil we seem to getting bogged down with the American versus Socialism thing, I must admit to being rather surprised at the strength of reaction I've had
for virgil and the others from just asking how this very interesting theology works out in practice, I feel that any sensitive person should be concerned with the desperate needs that many people have is our world and christians of every doctrinal persuasion should be doing what they can to change this.
I believe that any new slant on the truth should have practical outworking or it is doomed to become of only minority interest.
I have in 30 years of christian life never heard any one speak of Preterism, not one and even my
progressive nonconformist friends haven't heard of it. So it intersts me greatly and my questions are a direct result of my genuine interest.
I feel that service, justice, mercy and love are the very essence of christianity, the core that makes it different from other faiths, and Preterism to be taken seriously has to have these elements at its core.
Dispensationalism does ring true to me either but they have many in their number who probably like myself aren't as concerned with how or when the end will come (or came) and are more concerned with the toubles of today.
It is true that christianity isn't cutting it worldwide or even locally, we have completely lost touch with a large proportion of the worlds population and it's various needs, and I am not sure that many of us actually care.
You say we (christians) are reigning, if that's true do you think we are dong a good job and if not what would you change?
Thank you for your comments,
Tony (Frog)
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- by frog on Tuesday, August 30 @ 14:39:00 PDT
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- by Duncan on Tuesday, August 30 @ 20:28:27 PDT
- by Duncan on Tuesday, August 30 @ 23:37:42 PDT
- by frog on Tuesday, August 30 @ 23:56:44 PDT
- by Duncan on Wednesday, August 31 @ 10:20:34 PDT
- by frog on Thursday, September 01 @ 09:35:54 PDT
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