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"Christians are combatants in a conflict between good and evil, light and darkness, God and the devil."
-- Bob Larson
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Common Grace and its Continued Impact
Posted on Saturday, August 20 @ 14:10:52 PDT by Kyle Peterson |
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Barry submitted: ""Why is there evil in the world today?” is a common question that is asked of those that advocate the fulfillment of all things written. If Christ has come, if Judgment is passed, if the world and all that is in it – the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, have all passed away, then why is it that it just doesn’t look that way. How we answer this question for others, and perhaps more importantly for ourselves, depends on our approach to Preterism.
What we are doing in our approach to this question is looking for ways to embrace what appears to be the finality of covenant eschatology in and around AD 70, and at the same time explain the present world around us.
One way to handle the issue is to reduce what we see to be as “passed” or “fulfilled”. From my own perspective this often leads to a return to some type of partial preterism. Here is an ever-expanding list of things that in the opinion of this Bible student cannot be ongoing.
Ongoing gathering.
Ongoing harvest.
Ongoing resurrection.
Ongoing covenantal transformation.
Ongoing covenantal death.
Ongoing covenantal judgment.
Ongoing consummation of biblical history.
Ongoing consummation of biblical eschatology.
Ongoing destruction of the works of the devil.
Ongoing destruction of the holy people.
Ongoing destruction of the holy city.
Ongoing burning up of the chaff.
Ongoing destruction of the flesh.
Ongoing redemption.
Ongoing putting away of sin.
Ongoing taking away the sin of the world.
Ongoing reconciliation of all things.
Ongoing filling up of the wrath about to be.
Ongoing burning up of the heavens and the earth.
Ongoing passing away of the law.
Ongoing end of sacrifice.
Ongoing sealing up of vision and prophecy.
Ongoing finishing of transgression.
Ongoing making reconciliation of iniquity.
Ongoing second death.
Ongoing “you shall die in your sins”.
Ongoing Adam headship.
Ongoing “in the flesh”.
Ongoing inheritance in the age about to be.
Ongoing sin-death.
Ongoing born again (or rebirth).
Take this last one for example. Can we really be born again? If we were never born into the old world how can we be born again?
The fact that his first birth touches upon a physical happening is beside the real point of this exchange between Nicodemus and Christ. The subject is not one of physical but covenantal.
What Christ is telling Nicodemus is not that he must leave the physical behind him but that he must leave the old covenant world behind him in transformation.
Look at it this way:
Jesus: “You must be born again.”
Nicodemus: “How can I be born once again as a benefactor of the promises of God, when I have already met the existing criteria in my original birth? Is my original birth to be duplicated?”
Jesus: “Your first birth into the old covenant world will not get you into the kingdom of God. You must be transformed into a new creature to enter into the coming new creation.”
John 1:
13) Which were born, NOT OF THE BLOOD, nor of the WILL OF THE FLESH, nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of God.
Gal. 1:
13) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the JEWS’ RELIGION, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God.
14) And profited in the JEWS’ RELIGION above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the TRADITIONS OF MY FATHERS.
15) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16) To reveal his Son I me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I CONFERRED NOT WITH FLESH AND BLOOD:
Matt. 16:
17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona; for FLESH AND BLOOD hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (John 1:17)
1 Cor. 15:
50) Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Paul’s point concerning “flesh and blood” is not one of physicality but rather covenant world as is his statements concerning the “flesh” in the following verses (Rom. 8:8-9; Gal. 3:3, 5:17, 6:12).
The old covenant world is ATTACHED to what was possible in an INDEPENDENT HUMAN POTENTIAL. The destruction of the temple “made with hands” is not the end of its physicality but the end of its standing. Human potential finds its limits in the physical world but does not constitute the physical world. The end of the world is not the end of generations (Eph. 3:21) but the end of the standing of genealogies. It is the end of “flesh and blood”. The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life have passed away.
Nicodemus is being told the same thing that John the Baptist is preaching:
Matt. 3:2
“Repent for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND”.
Matt. 3:3
“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare YE THE WAY OF THE LORD, make his paths straight.”
Matt. 3:8
“Bring forth therefore fruits meet for REPENTANCE:” [John is warning them that they were going to need fruit or produce that repentance would generate. The work of the first-fruits creature.]
Matt. 3:9
“And THINK NOT to say WITHIN YOURSELVES, WE HAVE ABRAHAM TO OUR FATHER: for I say unto you, that GOD IS ABLE of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.”
Those who had accepted John’s teaching, which was in the “way of righteousness” were, “confessing their sins” and being baptized by John. This was a baptism of repentance, in acknowledgment of their human limitations. In acknowledgment of human limitations, which the law exposed, they were CHANGING THEIR MINDS about independent HUMAN POTENTIAL that had standing in the old covenant world. The religious leaders could not change their minds about how they viewed human glory. They did not REPENT so they could not BELIEVE (Mark 1:15).
Nicodemus is not asking how he can physically be born again, but is asking how his covenantal position in human potential can be repeated. The message that Christ is preaching to this terminal generation of genealogy is “With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
Those who had received the “mark of the beast” (circumcision), which marked their forehead (the mind-set in human potential evidenced through the strategically placed mark that implies that potential) and their right hand (authority of human potential, “circumcision made with hands”) were thrown into the lake of fire (at the end of the age), which is the second death. They said that they were Jews but did lie. They “REPENTED NOT of the WORKS OF THEIR HANDS”. The works of their hands became their idolatry. [Ed is the first (that I know of) to point out the meaning of the mark of the beast as circumcision.]
Acts 28:
3) And when Paul gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a VIPER out of the heat, and FASTENED ON HIS HAND.
4) And when the barbarians saw the venomous BEAST hang ON HIS HAND, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5) And HE SHOOK OFF THE BEAST INTO THE FIRE, and felt no harm.
The beast was not able to mark Paul (covenantally mark Paul) on the hand because he had “no confidence” “in the flesh”. Rather it was thrown “into the fire” and no harm came to Paul because the “second death” could not harm the new creature that did not receive the mark of the beast.
Those who “tell a lie” (“say they are Jews but are not”) could not enter into the New Jerusalem. Nor could the “lie” ever be a part of the New Jerusalem.
The terminal generation is described by the apostle John in this way:
Rev. 22:
11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
The limit set forth upon the terminal generation for this application was the coming of Christ (Rev. 22:7,12,20).
What the terminal generation are divided over is “who is your God, who is your idol?” As we tie this back into the conversation that Jesus is having with Nicodemus, we can see that Nicodemus had his idols. The terminal generation is told that they must chose between an independent human potential and that of God possibility. Their idols are the temple made with hand, circumcision made with hands, the old Jerusalem of human possibility, genealogies that stood as a depiction of human potential and suchlike. Nicodemus is being told that he needed a new “idol”, the serpent in the wilderness (John 3:14).
Num. 21:
9) And Moses MADE A SERPENT OF BRASS, [Moses made a new idol] and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man [Acts 28:3], when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
In Jewish imagery it is an over-against of the impotence [“upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life”] of the wisdom of serpent of old and the vitality and life giving of the idol serpent of brass lifted up in wilderness. Circumcision was given as a promise of, and a shadow of good things to come. But the shadow becomes the idol. Circumcision marked the coming end of the validity of the flesh as the flesh would be cut off. In the wilderness application it referred to a change of idols, which depicted a change from an independent human potential to God’s possibility in Christ. In the end of the age the works of the serpent of old are destroyed.
Nicodemus was told that he must be born again, from the vantage point of the world that he was first born into.
Now some dear preterist brothers and sisters will reject the complete end of Adam’s headship, but the problems in consistency that arise are numerous. Once Adam’s headship is extended beyond the end of the age then those who lived on beyond the end of the world who had, attained victory through the last Adam, could then be subject once again to the very world that had passed away. Getting Adam’s headship to extend beyond the destruction of the works of the devil is problematic at best.
The problem then is that all, or almost all (depending on the view of the preterirst) of the above are interlinked with each other. How do you obtain a true victory in AD 70 if any of the above is ongoing beyond the verdict of victory? This is one of the many problems that we are faced with when we do not approach the scriptures in a mindset of total and complete “victory”. That victory can be referred to as a type of “common grace”.
Common grace does not imply an identical commonly applied inheritance in the age that was about to be. It does mean a common forgiveness of sins as the old passes away. Without a real sense of “inclusiveness” in the final analysis there is a tendency to turn full preterism into partial preterism because there is a tendency to limit the victory that was attained in the end of the age.
Let’s get back to our original question [finally, some might add], “Why is there evil in the world today?” Our answer will depend on how we view the finality of that which has passed away. Does that which has passed away have a residual effect? Perhaps, but in the opinion of this Bible student this is not where we will find our answers.
Another term that may help us understand the continued application of what the new age pronounced, is “reflection”. The term “residual” may imply a portion of the old, which has made its way through. The term “reflection” may be used as an explanation that the whole of the world has changed but there are still issues and growth and transformation that reflects heavily on the past.
In this way then the old world of sectarianism has passed away because the standing of that world has ceased. Instead of having a residual of that old world we have a reflection of the past that must now we worked through in the new world where “peace” has been made in its fullest sense. Peace, is the world we live in. Unity cannot be made through us for it is already made. Peace cannot be made through us for it is already made. There is however an application of that unity and an application of that peace which has been made in Christ. There is a reflection of the old that is being worked out in the new. This is common grace in its continued and continuing impact. It is not a continued eschatological transformation but an evolution that reflects the issues of the past.
In this refection of past history there is a reflective outworking of the old age in our new world. Not that the old world is still with us but that the new world of unity and peace in Christ has an outworking application pattern that reflects the old in somewhat of a reverse.
Israel went from bad to worse as it went from judges to kings and we reflected this movement as we have gone and are still going from kings to judges.
As we encountered God’s hindering of human advancement in the era of Babel we can see God’s blessing [there are restrictions and responsibilities of course] of human creativity.
We went from Babel to the Internet where you can click to get your page translated. Yes just the beginning and still quite primitive.
Things went very bad very quickly after the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. The second and third generation begins to get everything wrong. From here things really turn begin to turn bad. We land up with a 1000 years of “dark ages”. Slowly we begin to work out of this. The case for showing a progressive historical reflection of past history upon the new world is gaining evidence as we begin to look more carefully at the last 1900 years of history.
There were Pharisees in the past in the old world and there are reflections of this same mind-set in many today. However they live in two different worlds. Seeing these worlds as two different worlds is in the view of this Bible student the only way that preterism can be harmonized with the information that we have been given.
Because the world has changed, how we relate to people should change. As we apply the unity and peace that is the new world order, we accept others in love. Not that all behavior or views or thinking has to be accepted. The person however is to be accepted as that person lives in the same world as we or I.
Love your neighbor as yourself finds its full impact in the new world as the applied meaning of the new world takes its hold in one’s mind and heart. As it dissolves the personal feelings of superiority or inferiority toward one another, as we love each other’s person as we stand in the new world creation of unity and peace. Not as if sectarianism cannot exist in our mind-set but that such sectarianism is not the order of the new world in the sovereignty of God.
Blessings and Peace, Barry
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Average Score: 5
Votes: 1
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OK, Let's say I buy your argument ... (Score: 1)
 by EWMI on Saturday, August 20 @ 21:07:52 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | I'm not sure how comprehensive your "Cannot be ongoing" list is but do you see that any of these are ongoing?
Repentance
Personal Holiness
Resistance to sin
Preaching of the Gospel
Prayer
Worship
Further, and I know this is ad hominem stuff:
It would be fair to say that millions upon millions of Christians have suffered for their faith in the last 2000 years. It would also be fair to say that millions are being persecuted today.
Would it not be true in the comprehensive grace paradigm that they would have far better lives if they simply rejected Christ and refused to admit they believed in Him?
Additionally, (and I am not being nasty here) would it not be better to shred every Bible in an attempt to keep people from adopting a position that is sure to bring them into conflict with the world? |
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- by Ed on Saturday, August 20 @ 21:53:18 PDT
- by EWMI on Saturday, August 20 @ 22:39:24 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, August 21 @ 03:39:04 PDT
- by EWMI on Sunday, August 21 @ 04:44:01 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, August 21 @ 06:17:39 PDT
- by EWMI on Sunday, August 21 @ 06:30:42 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, August 21 @ 07:16:17 PDT
- by EWMI on Sunday, August 21 @ 16:22:08 PDT
- by Barry on Monday, August 22 @ 18:51:57 PDT
- by EWMI on Monday, August 22 @ 19:41:59 PDT
- by Barry on Monday, August 22 @ 22:43:59 PDT
- by davo on Tuesday, August 23 @ 05:12:51 PDT
- by Barry on Tuesday, August 23 @ 05:49:09 PDT
- by davo on Tuesday, August 23 @ 06:31:21 PDT
- by Barry on Tuesday, August 23 @ 09:48:12 PDT
- by Freeman on Sunday, August 21 @ 07:16:24 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, August 21 @ 08:06:44 PDT
- by Freeman on Sunday, August 21 @ 22:13:16 PDT
- by Ed on Sunday, August 21 @ 08:56:13 PDT
- by amie on Wednesday, August 24 @ 08:53:01 PDT
- by Roderick on Saturday, August 20 @ 23:27:16 PDT
- by Barry on Sunday, August 21 @ 03:16:26 PDT
- by Ed on Sunday, August 21 @ 07:01:29 PDT
- by Paige on Sunday, August 21 @ 10:33:13 PDT
- by EWMI on Monday, August 22 @ 01:42:37 PDT
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