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Exclusive: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destruction
Posted on Sunday, June 05 @ 15:44:24 PDT by Virgil Vaduva

PlanetPreterist Columns by Virgil Vaduva
It seems that the en vogue thing to do nowadays when "discussing" theology, is to sum up the lack of arguments to name-calling and resort to tearing down others in order to promote a theological argument. Preterist have been often called "antisemitic" by futurists - this is of course a baseless accusation; and now it appears that the "u" word is the new mode of attack -- universalist. Imagine my surprise when I found out I was a "universalist" myself!

Now historically speaking, this started when we announced the theme of our TruthVoice 2005 conference, which is Preterism: A Generous Orthodoxy. The theme plays off Brian McLaren's book, A Generous Orthodoxy, which is fundamentally speaking, a call to unity between denominations and various views within Christendom. Brian was generous enough togive us permission and let us plan our conference around his book, and do it even from a Preterist perspective. In my naive expectations, I did not think that anyone would oppose such a noble goal: unite in Christ despite our differences, traditions and theological colors. Boy, was I wrong!?

The first sign of trouble appeared when John Paul II died. I wrote a column on John Paul, expressing my positive view of John Paul, talking about all the positive things he's done, especially his crucial role in the defeat of Communism. At last, because of his death, Christianity was plastered all over the News, being at the forefront of world's experience. Indeed, I made the point that because of the Catholic Church, Christianity is having a great comeback. To my dismay, this was borderline blasphemy to many of my protestant friends. John Paul II was not a godly man, or a good pope - instead, he was most likely a pedophile himself and at best a "dubious moral authority" who has on his hands "the blood of millions of people" and "accursed man" who "brings people closer to hell."

Soon after, I wrote a series of three columns on Calvinism, discussing the reasons for which I perceive Calvinism to be wrong in light of Preterist theology. I concluded then, as I still believe, that the events of AD 70 had a much more ecumenical effect than initially thought. I have concluded that AD 70 brought about a comprehensive reconciliation between God and the world. It is quite clear to me that the general thread of the Scripture revolves around God's furious pursuit of mankind, and His effort to reconcile and redeem the entire creation back to Himself. Despite the inclusive language of Revelation, many Preterists continue to play word games, most likely because tradition and preconceptions do not allow them to be flexible enough to perceive that "all" mean "all." This caused a violent reaction from quite a few individuals, especially from some who are Calvinists and seem to be self-appointed leaders of Preterism. My conclusions outlined below are outright heretical and dangerous. Indeed, these conclusions prove, they say, that I am a universalist, a liberal, a wolf, a liar, dishonest, eastern mystic (I don't even know what that means).

It is clear to me that AD70 had a much more comprehensive effect on the world's relationship with God and the world's reconciliation with God. Of course, as I have stated several times already, I see a clear difference between salvation and redemption. For example, Christ's sacrifice had been already paid once, for all people. As a result, they all have been redeemed yet not all have been made aware of the reality of redemption. Hebrews 9 makes this clear: ...so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him." In the Hebrews' author's mind, Christ had redeemed the world (to put away sin) and will appear a second time to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

There is a very close parallel between Christ's redemption of the world and Israel's redemption from Egypt. All Israel made it into the Promised land, just as the entire world (all) made it into God's presence. And so, redemption is quite comprehensive in nature. Not all Jews that made it into the Promised land were "saved" or lived in covenant with God, yet all of them enjoyed the benefits of the promised land, just as non-believers today are not living in covenant with God, are lost, yet still enjoy the benefits of the blessings poured on the new Israel of God, us, the believers.

Furthermore, Paul himself seems to make a difference between salvation and reconciliation. In 2 Cor. 5, Paul writes: "Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2 Cor. 5:18,19).

Paul again writes in Col 1: ""...through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven."(Col. 1:20). There is little doubt that God did reconcile all things on earth and things in heaven to Himself, yet as I have illustrated earlier, not all live in covenant with God, proving that salvation and reconciliation are in fact two different concepts. It is clear to me that all have been redeemed, all have been reconciled -- it is not however as clear that all have been/are being saved. There is without doubt in my mind a comprehensive aspect to both redemption and reconciliation, while salvation seems to have a limited scope, notwithstanding the historical, first-century context; so only outright dishonesty would lead anyone to conclude that I am in fact teaching universalism.

Now folks, I have been blessed in such a way that I depend on no one but God for financial support, so there are no ulterior motives that affect my theology. I am not afraid to speak openly concerning my beliefs, which is why I have been so open to discussing Catholicism, Universalism, Calvinism, or you name it. What bothers me is the continuous barrage of personal attacks and name-calling from those who profess to be Christians. The bottom line is this: if I was a universalist, I would readily admit it. The same goes for anti-semitism, Catholicism, or whatever other labels are being in print right now. Preterism in general is a very conservative environment, so it appears that those practicing the politics of personal destruction have picked up on the fact that the word "universalism" creates an optimal gut-reaction in most Preterist circles, so it is the choice word for name-calling at the present time.

For the past several months I have been called a universalist by several people whom I have never met, and never discussed any of my beliefs with. None of these individuals took even five minutes to ask me directly what my soteriology is, yet they made the time to make unfounded public accusations. Ultimately, I believe the sour attitude goes down to the fact that I refuse to condemn the universalists, Catholics, Greek Orthodox and others that do not fit their predetermined profile. Indeed, this is the "if you are not with us, you are against us" attitude.

In a recent e-mail exchange with one of these individuals, I was told "You defend their (universalists) ideas all the time and claim "comprehensive reconciliation" yet YOU NEVER define what you believe. Truly, the problem seems to be not as much with what I believe, but with the fact that I respect those who differ from me in their theology. Of course, anyone willing to take the time would find out where I stand either by asking me, or by reading my columns on this website. In essence, the fact that I am willing to discuss universalism with universalists seem to make me one of them. Perhaps I am also a catholic, a liberal, a Buddhist, a homosexual, and a seventh day Adventist since I have had countless conversations with people from these circles, and wrote research papers and spent extensive time on studying the subjects.

The accuser in question continued with "As for universalism, any teaching that says all men are reconciled to God is universalism. So maybe you can stop being dishonest, and tell people what you DO believe. Instead of by making us guess with your defences, insinuations, and attacks on what WE believe. Of course, it would be almost impossible to reason with this kind of logic since the term "comprehensive reconciliation" had already been found guilty of a capital offense and I have already been found to be dishonest.

So, for those who are so adamant to speak against Universalism, their attitude speaks volumes of what's in their hearts. Some of the nicest people I know are universalists. They are patient, generous, loving and not quick to judge when I express disagreement with their position. On the other hand, the "accusers" here seem to me to profess self-righteousness and seem to be bent on spreading destruction and separation, things which are condemned by the Scriptures.

I have said it before, and I say it again, Preterists of all people should understand respect towards others, generosity and the destructive nature of ad-hominem attacks. Sadly, we should not have to enforce these things on a Preterist website.

------

Virgil Vaduva is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.

View Virgil Vaduva archives

Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.


 
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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by Ed on Sunday, June 05 @ 16:41:26 PDT
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Virgil,
I would like to offer CONTEXTUALLY, a section of scripture that I found enlightening (and often misapplied).

Philippians 4:2,4-9 (NRSV)
2 I urge Euodia and I urge Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord...4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. 6 Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. 9 Keep on doing the things that you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, and the God of peace will be with you.

Paul begins by asking these two women to agree in the Lord. Does anyone here see that he doesn't tell one that she is right, and the other that she is wrong? Maybe both were wrong, maybe both were right. Either way, they were to AGREE in the Lord.

Then Paul tells them to REJOICE. Agreement, and then rejoicing.

Next, in vs. 5, Paul says that they should be gentle. Agreement, rejoicing, gentleness.

In vs. 6, Paul tells that NOT TO WORRY ABOUT ANYTHING. Here is where most people don't apply the context. He is telling the Philippians not to worry about the stuff that the women are arguing about. He tells them instead to PRAY. Agreement, rejoicing, gentleness, non-anxiousness, and prayer.

Look as we go on: vs. 7, Paul says that if this is the process followed, God will give them PEACE. How do they get peace? Is it from arguing, debating, and name-calling? No, it is from the aforementioned steps: agreement, rejoicing, gentleness, non-anxiousness, prayer, and then comes PEACE.

In vs. 8, Paul tells the saints to focus on noble things, pure things, etc. He tells us to keep doing these things: agreement, rejoicing, gentleness, non-anxiousness, prayer, peace. The end result is found in vs. 9, "the God of peace will be with you always."

This is the scriptural formula for peace amongst Christians. It is not name-calling, winning debates, or anything that we do. It is Philippians 4:2,4-9.


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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by Ozark on Sunday, June 05 @ 19:54:42 PDT
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Virgil,

Very interesting article. I especially like your title. Perhaps doctrine is the self-righteousness of the modern paradigm. We tend to equate right doctrine with being right with God. God accepts those who get their doctrine right, and He rejects those who do not. Therefore, we feel quite comfortable rejecting those who disagree with us, because we believe God does the same. Those who have accosted you somehow believe they are doing God’s will.

In the first century there was a group of people who rejected others for reasons of flesh and blood. They believed certain people were unacceptable to God because who they were was wrong or what they did or did not do was wrong. If God rejected these people, they felt they should do the same. In fact, the Pharisees taught that such people were destined for hell. Today there are those who reject and condemn others for being universalists even damming them to hell. Likewise, all of us as full preterists at one time or another have been threatened with the fires of hell. What is the old saying? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….

Some might cry foul. How can I possibly make that comparison? “We are defenders of the faith” they say. Remember the Pharisees thought they were defenders of the faith too.

Well, how about Paul? He had some very sharp words for those who perverted the gospel trying to mix the old covenant with the new, the righteousness of God with the righteousness of man. He was defending the faith, and that justifies us in doing the same. Yet, exactly who was God rejecting and who was He accepting in that day? Was the issue doctrine, or was it something much deeper than that?

In Jesus’ day there were certain groups of people who were considered outcasts. They were folks God had rejected, and therefore they should be rejected. They were unclean. One of these groups was the sinners. Perhaps the most notorious sinners were the tax collectors and the prostitutes. Yet, we never see Jesus preach one sermon on the evils of tax collection. We never see one sermon on the evils of prostitution.

Other groups that were rejected were the infirm such as the lame, blind, and lepers. After all either their sin or their parents sin left them in their predicament. The most rejected of all was the gentiles. It is one thing when the gentiles are in their own land with their uncleanness and pagan gods. It is quite another if those gentiles come and invade your land and bring their strange ways along with high taxes and unimaginable brutality to your doorstep.

Apparently, some thought that sinners and the like were keeping the Messiah from coming. If they could only get it right…. And the gentiles, certainly God is going to destroy them. That is what God does to pagans right?

Jesus healed the infirm which was just as much a statement about God’s acceptance and forgiveness as it was about God’s power. Moreover, He did not pronounce judgment upon the gentiles.

Why did Jesus say so little about some obvious wrongs of the day? Was He saying it was all of a sudden OK to cheat your brother or to be a pagan? Certainly not. It is just that these people were not standing in the way of what God was doing. What God was bringing through Christ was not rejection for the outcast but forgiveness, reconciliation, and acceptance. Those who stood in God’s way were the ones who refused to accept those whom God was accepting. They refused to forgive desiring judgment instead and thus brought judgment upon themselves. Mercy was coming, and if you were standing in the way of Mercy, you were about to be flattened.

The folks that Paul accosted were of the same spirit of the ones Jesus accosted. The Judiazers believed the gentiles were still unacceptable unless they basically become Jews. The ones that rejected others were the ones Paul rejected. In the mind of Jesus and Paul it was those who were doing the rejecting that were in the greate

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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by MichaelB on Sunday, June 05 @ 20:07:29 PDT
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Virgil writes:

"I see a clear difference between salvation and redemption. For example, Christ's sacrifice had been already paid once, for all people. As a result, they all have been redeemed yet not all have been made aware of the reality of redemption"

The bible says:

Ephesians 1
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. HAVING BELIEVED, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

Virgil - apparently his redemption was for the prised posession and that sealing for redemption came by FAITH

Also below - notice that they were going to receive the redemption and salvation. They didn't already have redemption. They only had salvation and redemption by faith - the substance of things HOPED for.

Luke 21
28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Romans 13
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

Redemption and salvation came one way (BY FAITH) and and at the same time (70 AD)

Notice above that the REDEEMED were going to be given an INHERITANCE (Ephesians 1 above).

Notice that not everyone was going to get the inheritance and THEREFORE not all were REDEEMED because as pointed out above, Ephesians 1 says that the REDEEMED would receive the inheritance.

Matthew 25
33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,

James 2
5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?

Galatians 4
30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."

Since only the redeemed were going to receive the inheritance according to Ephesians 1 (above) we can conclude that not all are redeemed.

Michael Bennett


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The Scope of Redemption (Score: 1)
by davo on Monday, June 06 @ 00:10:20 PDT
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Coming to "faith in Christ" is not and never was about the 'fire insurance' of avoiding Hell, but about coming into a life of service with God. By responding affirmatively in faith and repentance to the call of God, one enters into the priesthood of service, experiencing conversion – being saved to serve.

All who answered the call of God as evidenced in the Old Testament did so, again, not to get to Heaven – as that was not an issue, but to minister on behalf of God's people. Through Christ's atoning sacrifice the whole of humanity has been restored and now 'the people of God', or as Virgil has said elsewhere – humanity being Israel and believers i.e., the Church being the New Jerusalem. "Believers" then are God's ministers in His new creation – a priesthood of believers.

Some with a critical eye of judgment view Romans 9 as the touchstone of election and reprobation with regards to existence beyond the grave, but miss the mark in such as not appreciating that the new covenant heavenward call was and is a call toward justice, mercy and humility [Mic 6:8], which ultimately is demonstrated by the axiom "love thy neighbour…" – in doing so we are loving God and experientially in life being loved by God, and thus knowing His assurance of peace.

God's displeasure towards Esau as reflected by Paul in Romans was not that of a rancid hatred, but needs to be seen and understood in the light of redemptive history i.e., Esau was not the one chosen or elect for such a high redemptive calling. This is why 'election' in its proper context of redemption was [past tense] about purpose and NOT position i.e., it was about service and NOT about gaining Heaven; it was and is about "Immanuel!! God with us" – Yahweh dwelling and present with man, reunited with Him in the last Adam – restoration.

So rejection or what some wrongly label "reprobation" simply means NOT chosen for the higher redemptive purpose. Take the account of the call of David in 1Sam 16:1-13. In particular verse 7 where refusal or "rejection" clearly means nothing more than NOT called for that redemptive ministration.

1Sam 16:6-7 So it was, when they came, that he looked at Eliab and said, "Surely the LORD's anointed is before Him!" But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused [rejected] him. For the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

This is the essence of Paul's election issue of Rom 9 – whether helped or hardened of the Lord had nothing to do with post death destinies, but rather God's redemptive plan for man. That was the story of Israel – to be the world's light. Christ and the first-fruit saint fulfilled Israel's mission.

Paul's various vessels [Rom 9:21-23; 2Tm 2:20-21] be they honourable OR NOT, were of the same lump, all were of the one house [kingdom]. Israel, believing AND unbelieving, rebellious OR faithful were all-together no less the covenanted people of God – faith obtained the blessings and promises and faithlessness certainly led to temporal judgment and forfeiture of blessing [consequences of actions] yet such these were still experienced in this life. So the scope of redemption as it applied to Israel WAS comprehensive, yet "faith" enabled one to be useful in the redeeming reconciling hand of God – something the first-fruit saints came into, and so found salvation.

So we find that scripturally speaking "rejection" by God was NOT about post death retributive judgment through damnation or obliteration; it was simply non-election to the greater redemptive purposes of God – nothing more an

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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 2, Informative)
by armothe (armothe@yahoo.com) on Monday, June 06 @ 06:31:24 PDT
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Christ, John the B., Paul, the apostles and anyone else God bestowed His Holy Spirit upon were being led by the Holy Spirit - giving them better understanding of the truth.

As Preterists we realize that the gift of the Holy Spirit (as present in mankind) ceased in 70AD. We no longer have the power/spirit of God within us, rather His presence made real for us.

Hence, we can not compare ourselves to the apostles and award ourselves the exact same liberties when it comes to enforcing the gospel truths amongst others (take note: Stevens, McPhereson, Edwards, Warren).

We like to claim that because we are commanded to be like Christ - we have the authority to get upset at others because they disagree with us on our personal interpretations of scripture. Maybe we should take a long walk off of a short pier and see if we can walk on water too?

God, in the New Testament, clearly outlines the way we should handle fellow Christians when it comes to offenses such as anger, malice, infidelities, stealing, boasting and various physical sins.

Nothing is mentioned in regards to rebuking a person for stumbling upon conclusions while they continue to study God's word.

I believe some of you are hiding behind the guise of church discipline to justify your bogus behavior towards those who disagree with you when it comes to various church doctrines.

Perhaps you are the ones that need to be disciplined?


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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by Barry on Monday, June 06 @ 13:34:41 PDT
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I've been away for a while.
Bold very bold.
Very interesting!

May God guide us in our continuing study of his word, and may we apply love and the benifit of the doubt as far as we can to learn more from others.
Blessings Barry


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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by Ed on Monday, June 06 @ 14:21:59 PDT
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Virgil,
I just read this on another site. It is a quote from Brian Wilcox. It is part of a discussion between student and teacher, and the teacher answers the student's question about whether he has a "high" or "low" Christology.

I neither teach a high nor a low Christology. I simply teach about Christ. I do not come down on the side of any divide, for Christ is Love and Love cannot be divided. Persons may be divided on theology, but God is not the divider. Men of simple minds must divide and stand on sides, for they think they must stand guard over their version of Truth, as though Truth relies on a version of Truth. He who stands with Truth has no need to defend, for Truth is its own defense. Truth only needs to be lived and shared with others. And I choose to be a man of Love and, thus, take no sides: Only to Love. Let others fight about such matters; he in Love cannot fight. Anyway, when you hold the hand of a deeply hurting person, does that person need Love or your Christology?

I thought that this summed up some of the issues presented here.

IHIG,

ed


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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by vinster on Tuesday, June 07 @ 05:52:24 PDT
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Virgil said,

"There is a very close parallel between Christ's redemption of the world and Israel's redemption from Egypt. All Israel made it into the Promised land, just as the entire world (all) made it into God's presence."

Where do you get this idea that "ALL" Israel that came out of Egypt made it into the Promised Land?? What about the whole generation that was destroyed in the wilderness for their disobedience and unbelief??? God said that they would never enter His rest!!
Vinster


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Colossians 1 - Reconciliation (Score: 1)
by MichaelB on Tuesday, June 07 @ 09:22:07 PDT
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Virgil - please show me how Colossians 1 is not about reconciliation that came BY FAITH.

19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to RECONCILE to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has RECONCILED you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.


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2Cor 5 - Reconciliation (Score: 1)
by MichaelB on Wednesday, June 08 @ 09:35:16 PDT
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2 Cor 5
17Therefore, if anyone is IN CHRIST, he is a NEW CREATION; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who RECONCILED us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of RECONCILIATION: 19that God was RECONCILING the world to himself IN CHRIST, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of RECONCILIATION. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We IMPLORE YOU on Christ's behalf: Be RECONCILED to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God.

Questions:

Why are people being "implored" to be reconciled to God if reconciliation has nothing to do with faith?

How does one get "in Christ" and become a part of the "new creation"?

Philippians 3
9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.

How does one become "righteousness of God"

Philippians 3
9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.


I just connected having FAITH to recieving the RECONCILIATION.

I just connected having FAITH to having God's RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I just connected FAITH to being a NEW CREATION.

The RECONCILIATION only came by FAITH. If all were automatically reconciled to God then no one would have had to be "implored" to be reconciled.

Michael Bennett




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Re: The Ugly Side of Preterism: Self-righteousness and the Politics of Personal Destr (Score: 1)
by davo on Wednesday, June 08 @ 17:07:54 PDT
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Michael, you display such a limited understanding of this:

MichaelB:
I just connected having FAITH to recieving the RECONCILIATION.
[God's faith Rom 3:3-4a]

I just connected having FAITH to having God's RIGHTEOUSNESS. [Christ's faith Phil 3:9 Gk Rom 3:22 Gk]

I just connected FAITH to being a NEW CREATION. [Our faith Gal 3:26]

The RECONCILIATION only came by FAITH. If all were automatically reconciled to God then no one would have had to be "implored" to be reconciled. [The imploring was for them to come into the reality that Christ's faith ALREADY established as per Rom 5:10 – doing so would THEN lead to salvation – hence the link with faith, but faith cannot produce what already is, i.e., reconciliation – RECONCILIATION however can and does produce faith – hence reconciliation IS the work of God in Christ ALONE that LEADS TO salvation – two indelibly linked YET DISTINCT truths.

All this has been explained to you time and time again and you choose not to accept it and that's fine, but all your "questions" spring from IMO an insufficient and deficient paradigm, and one that most certainly far LESS "fulfilled" than you make it out to be.

So Michael, I accept that you have a distain for and see as threateningly repugnant any thought that God's wondrous grace could possibly be toward ALL those He made in His own image – I accept THAT is YOUR reality, it however IMO lacks scriptural understanding and grace.


davo – pantelism.com –


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