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As I was ministering to someone, what I call a blocking demon took control of them. Blocking demons have very unique types of functions. They do strange things. But these strange things are diversionary mechanisms so that the exorcism cannot proceed. This demon somehow lowered the body temperature of this person - I mean their lips turned blue. They were dying.
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Exclusive: Questions from a post-modern Christian
Posted on Thursday, March 10 @ 10:13:40 PST by Virgil Vaduva

PlanetPreterist Columns by Virgil Vaduva
The more I learn about the “emerging Church” or “emerging Christianity” the more I like it, and the more I realize how foolish it is to criticize other people for their mistakes and understandings of theology, scripture and doctrine. Even as Preterists, if we do not understand that we are all “works in progress” we will miserably fail at our mission – if we even know what that mission is.

For any movement to be successful, it needs to carefully define its purpose, dreams and goals. So far, Preterism is a bitter disappointment, not from a theological perspective, but from the perspective of its missional approach to those around us. By missional, I mean the willingness to go beyond and past the “conservative vs. liberal, us vs. them, right vs. wrong” line. Embroiled in bitter infighting, vicious arguments, and lack of respect for other opinions, Preterism has yet to grow up from being just a baby doctrine. Plus, when is the last time you were successful in getting a 19 year old teenager to sit down with you and study Eschatology? Good luck with accomplishing the impossible! As most Preterists live in the past, they have almost nothing to offer to the emerging generation of Christians. We need an “in” with them. I am working on a few ideas, and yes, we have the truth of theology on our side, but looking back in history, truth has been swallowed up by lies more often than has not been.

Many of us have been engulfed in maintaining that specifics are important. Some will insist that identifying the two witnesses in the book of Revelation is crucial to the message of Preterism. Some simply don’t care who the two witnesses were. Others insist that knowing the exact day and hour when the Old Covenant was fulfilled is key to validating Preterism. These arguments appear to be remnants of twenty-year-old theological arguments that have somehow made it into year 2005. During modernism, clear-cut positions on any side of an argument were a necessary requirement. If you were just an inch or so over the line, you could be a liberal or a conservative, and that could ruin your life or your career. This worked fine during Christianity’s war against liberalism and atheism. We’ve won those battles. The problem is that in a post-modern world, the lines are nowhere to be found. Even without the lines being visible, many Preterists continue to see things in black and white, even when their own children are wearing gray shades. Instead of learning to adapt, we often grab our paintbrush and we quickly color issues in whatever our favorite color is. Anyone wearing the wrong color socks that don’t match his outfit is either a heretic or a liberal (perhaps a conservative in some circles).

Let me remind everyone that not everything about liberalism is bad or evil. While for years conservatives used the Bible to justify slavery, liberals courageously fought against it and persuaded many millions of this terrible injustice. Many women have been abused and treated terribly at the hands of “conservative Christians.” Many conservatives have no regards for taking care of our environment and preserving it for our descendants while heathen liberals are on fire in their zeal to protect nature. Some conservatives read the Bible and the Creation story in such a literal way that they ignore all common sense and scientific facts that seem to contradict their beliefs. By the same token, liberals turn the creation story into some scientific experiment which eventually becomes some universal metaphor for man’s wisdom at the expense of Bible’s accuracy and literalism.

Today, Preterists are again taking a hard line on many of these same issues, failing to learn from the past. It’s seems to be OK to bash Catholics because after all they are wrong about so many things, so they cannot possibly have the ability to subscribe to Preterism. The same goes for Orthodox Christians, who seem to be overzealous with painting the walls of their church buildings and be less concerned with theological matters. Oh boy, and discussions about Universalism should only consist of whispers in dark alleys. After all, Universalists are irrevocably lost to God because hey, we can’t have everyone be saved! That would never cross God's mind! That’s heresy, and as the true followers of Christ, we can refuse to even speak on the same podium as anyone who professes a hint of Universal salvation. And could we even attempt to put a Calvinist and an Arminianist in the same room? Forget it!

Folks, where is Christ’s grace in all of this? There is more to people thank just theology. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately sometimes) many of us have strong and stubborn beliefs about many things. Just because the beliefs are strong, they are not necessarily in accordance with reality. Let’s take our Dispensationalist friends for example. They have what we consider to be very warped views of the Apocalypse, the Resurrection and its timing. Does that make them any less of God’s children in His eyes? What about the Mormons, with their belief that God is a person of flesh and blood like you and I, that he lives on some planet somewhere where he regularly mates with his many wives. Does their view of God make them any less valuable in His eyes? What about asking the taboo question: does their view of God invalidate the redeeming work of Christ as it pertains to them? Will God say “I reject you Mormons because you believe that I have a physical body and because you think Joseph Smith was an inspired prophet?” Or could it be that God thinks the whole thing is really stupid and chuckles over it once in a while saying, “I can’t believe these people actually think I have wives!

Could it be that in our own excitement over discovering truth, or at least what we think is truth right now, we got a little overzealous and regressed back into a time and place where things are our way or the highway? Does it really matter if some Christians like to paint the interior of their church buildings with beautiful paintings and use these paintings to better relate to God, prayer and meditation? Does it matter that partial-preterists reject every gracious hand extended to them by us, and meet us with mockery and disgust? Does it matter that some choose to meet and pray in magnificent cathedrals while others use their living rooms? Does it really matter if some see God’s grace and salvation permeating every corner of the universe while others see it as applying to only specifically chosen people? Does it matter if some believe salvation comes through baptism alone? Does it ultimately matter if some have the courage to ask what do we need to be saved from anymore?

What is ultimately so important as to actually matter to God? How about “love God and love your neighbor?” Which God? Whichever God Jesus meant when he said so. And if you ask me “which neighbor?” I will have to smack you over the head and tell you to lighten up. The 19 year old kid who needs so much to understand the truth of Covenant Eschatology will be much more eager to listen to us if we are willing to look past his nose-ring, tattoos and green hair. Or look past the Catholic’s crucifix hanging around his neck or his worn-out rosary in his hand, the Left Behind Bibles people carry under their arms, or the white shirts of the Mormons riding bikes in our neighborhoods. And if we can’t look past these things, then maybe God will have a chuckle and say: “I can’t believe these people think they have the truth yet they are so stupid and superficial!

------

Virgil Vaduva is a columnist for PlanetPreterist.com.

View Virgil Vaduva archives

Note: Opinions presented on PlanetPreterist.com or by PlanetPreterist.com columnists may not necessarily reflect the position of PlanetPreterist.com, or reflect the beliefs, doctrine or theological position of all other preterists. We encourage all readers to first and foremost carefully analyze all articles in the light of God's Word.


 
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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by Ozark on Thursday, March 10 @ 12:22:50 PST
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Virgil,

Amen. If our doctrine does not lead us to love God and love our neighbor, what good is it? As Paul said in I Cor. 13, if we understand all mysteries but have not love, we are nothing.

Moreover, if we think that doctrine is going to unify the church, I think we are poor students of history. Five hundred years of church history have shown quite the opposite. The more we try to make doctrine the basis of our unity the more we divide. We have seen this just on the this web site. How many full preterist “camps” are there among us alone? Somehow we get the idea that the only possible way I can be one with my brother is if he agrees with me. Or we get the idea that the major thing God is doing on the earth is making everyone see it my way.

Perhaps there is a better way to judge my brother than whether he has got it right or not. Perhaps it is more important that Jesus got it right for all two thousand years ago on the cross. And if Jesus got it right for my brother, he is my brother no matter his eschatological viewpoint. Maybe instead of hating our brother because of what he believes, we should love him because of what Christ has done.

Virgil might be right. There might be a better way emerging among God’s people. We must not expect it to be wearing the same old trappings of the past five hundred years.


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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by Mick on Thursday, March 10 @ 12:39:02 PST
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I have come to many of the same conclusions over the last year. It seems most "Christians" are happy with were they are. They seem to have an, “I have arrived mentality.” "If I am saved then and we are in the 'last days', then all I have to do is hang on. Lord come quickly and rapture me out of this world." Is it not true that God wants his people to make the world better? Although, it is a different context, does not God want intimate fellowship with all of his creation 2Pt 3.9. We need to have the message we are going to be around here for a long time and we need to be making the world better to God's glory. See my Blog for a song for post-modern christians.


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Is truth knowable? (Score: 1)
by Parker on Thursday, March 10 @ 12:59:24 PST
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Virgil, your article is good for maintaining peace. However, it's always problematic when truth claims must be surrendered to maintain peace.

Logically speaking, if doctrines matter, then they must be debated until authoritative conclusions are reached and agreed upon. If doctrines don't matter, and if all manner of contradictory opinions are valid as long as they are held in good conscience, then why is anyone a Christian at all?

When christian groups can't come to agreements on anything related to doctrine, it begs the question as to whether or not Christianity has any "truth" to offer anyone with any certainty. Don't you agree?


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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by PreteristAD70 on Thursday, March 10 @ 13:01:08 PST
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Virgil:

A lot of what you say rings true to me, but some of what you say begins to raise the hair on the back of my neck. Not that hair-raising means anything. (BTW, have you been reading more of "Generous Orthodoxy" lately?)

I think I understand where you're coming from: the more you come to learn what you perceive to be "truth," the more "untruth" baggage you realize you've left behind. The more baggage you leave behind, the more sympathetic you are to those who still hold views you once held yourself (e.g., dispensationalists, baptism saves, etc.). I find myself in a similar position. However ...

Where do we draw the line of orthodoxy? How far are we willing to sacrifice the truth on the altar of ignorance before we say, "Whoa, now! Don't cross that line!"

Then again, who are we, uninspired believers 2,000 years removed from Christ and the Apostles, to say what is orthodoxy and heterodoxy? Can we even begin to make that distinction anymore? Isn't it considerably more subjective now? Hinging orthodoxy on sola scriptura won't help, since contradictory "orthodoxies" can be generated from the same holy book.

Since becoming a preterist, I am much more tolerant of other views, but something inside me still begs for some measure of orthodoxy (not necessarily credal). Where can we find such answers?

--Mike Beidler


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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by davecollins on Thursday, March 10 @ 13:11:09 PST
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Dear Virgil, I agree with your thoughts. Our faith in Jesus should cause us to act like Jesus!. God's purpose in creating "new creations" is so we can love others the way we have been loved by God.

I believe doctrine is vital to healthy growth, but the mark of the spiritual mature is seen in how they treat other human "becomings".

When people see the reality of our confidence and trust in our King, they will be ready to look at our doctrine.

I am dogmatically "full preterist", but I can fellowship with any who claim Christ as Lord and Savior.




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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by jaredcoleman on Thursday, March 10 @ 13:12:15 PST
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Great job, Virgil!


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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by stubblyirish on Thursday, March 10 @ 15:20:26 PST
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Hey, I'm 20, and I was 19 when I became a Preterist!! :):) Seriously, though... Virgil, I did enjoy reading your article. I certainly think that you bring up some good points to ponder. However, after being on a mission trip to Northern Ireland and trying to show my love to hopeless teenagers there, my understanding of "Divine Revelation" has altered significantly.

I see in the Bible that the disciples were commanded to go around the cities of Israel and the surrounding regions and to preach the gospel and that the kingdom of God was near. If they were rejected, then they were to shake the dust off their feet.... not hang around and try to love the gospel into them. A lot of times, all we can do is just drop the seed. I believe the Bible clearly tells that God is the one who causes the increase according to His will. If it's not His will that those children in Northern Ireland come to Christ, then so be it. All the glory goes to Him regardless of the outcome.

My point is this: I don't foresee a time when everyone agrees on everything. That runs contrary to the history of the human race, and with the differences and blending of cultures like never before today, lots of disagreement arises. Some of it is based on ignorance, some on stubbornness, some on laziness, some on confusion, etc. etc... I hope you see what I am getting at. We are only responsible for our own efforts and actions. We can try to reason and learn together with other Christians and humans, but we will get nowhere without Divine Intervention. I know this gets into "Free Will" vs. "Bondage of the Will", but ultimately, we are only responsible for our own actions.

After being rejected by many, listened to and interacted with by some, and continually questioned about my Preteristic views by very few, that is what I have come to so far. Ultimately, all I can be responsible for is myself, and whether or not Christendom goes along with me is irrelevant.


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I think (Score: 1)
by KingNeb on Thursday, March 10 @ 19:11:52 PST
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it's a bad article. A person can take very strong stances on issues and still 'hang out' with the thugs and hoodlums and show grace to others. Virgil draws lines himself in the article. It also immediately sets it up so that any who would criticize are made to feel stupid:

"the more I realize how foolish it is to criticize other people for their mistakes and understandings of theology, scripture and doctrine."

I guess based on what i just wrote, im a 'fool'.

Isn't that 'drawing a line'?


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Re: Questions from a post-modern Christian (Score: 1)
by SuperSoulFighter on Sunday, March 13 @ 21:48:40 PST
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Hi, Virgil! Interesting thoughts! Graciously and charitably presented, with a view to promoting that perspective amongst ourselves to a much greater degree than we have, perhaps, experienced heretofore.

To be honest, I felt that some of this article may have been directed, subtly, toward the ongoing conflict between myself and Parker. Certainly, things have taken a nasty turn lately between us, and I'm sure it has made involvement in those discussions uncomfortable for all. We were left to our own devices as we battled it out in a heated, acerbic, caustic environment of mutual contempt.

I'm thinking of these comments in particular, above.

Today, Preterists are again taking a hard line on many of these same issues, failing to learn from the past. It’s seems to be OK to bash Catholics because after all they are wrong about so many things, so they cannot possibly have the ability to subscribe to Preterism. The same goes for Orthodox Christians, who seem to be overzealous with painting the walls of their church buildings and be less concerned with theological matters. Oh boy, and discussions about Universalism should only consist of whispers in dark alleys. After all, Universalists are irrevocably lost to God because hey, we can’t have everyone be saved! That would never cross God's mind! That’s heresy, and as the true followers of Christ, we can refuse to even speak on the same podium as anyone who professes a hint of Universal salvation. And could we even attempt to put a Calvinist and an Arminianist in the same room? Forget it!

Yes, I've taken a hard line against Calvinism AND Catholicism (my hardest line is reserved for the latter, of course). Such a stance is both justifiable AND necessary, in seeking to overturn centuries of false teaching and doctrine. Boldly and aggressively addressing nasty, baseless attacks from those who adhere to these false faiths is incumbent upon each and every one of us who has become acquainted with, and adopted, the TRUE understanding of Scripture as God originally intended that it be understood (i.e. Full Preterism and its hermeneutics). We have an obligation toward those who love and promote the lies forming the framework of the outmoded paradigms associated with futurism to take them to task and hold them accountable to the clear, express, unequivocal language and terms of Scripture. Whether they are uncomfortable with "sola Scriptura" or not, the Scriptures DO form the basis of the Christian faith, and as such they are the benchmark and standard of Truth. Those who resist this principle and foundation have no part in either true Christianity OR the Kingdom of Heaven, and the most gracious, benevolent, charitable thing we can do for them is acquaint them with that fact in no uncertain terms.

For some reason, Parker has been permitted to (speaking figuratively, and I trust you'll pardon the expression) defecate on my articles and subsequent discussions with no disciplinary, corrective measures taken. I find this state of affairs both unfortunate and counter-productive in generating and maintaining an atmosphere of mutual respect and open inquiry. And I find Parker himself contemptible, in terms of both his worldview/faith AND his personal expressions thereof. His means of interacting with others is utterly unacceptable, and his participation on this site should be brought under immediate review with a view to withdrawing his membership here.

Could it be that in our own excitement over discovering truth, or at least what we think is truth right now, we got a little overzealous and regressed back into a time and place where things are our way or the highway? Does it really matter if some Christians like to paint the interior of their church buildings with beautiful paintings and use these paintings to better relate to God, prayer and meditation? Does it matter that partial-preterists reject every gracious hand extended to them by us, and meet us with mockery and disgust? Does it matter

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