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Preterism: A Response to ‘Things John Noe doesn’t know’
Posted on Tuesday, February 22 @ 10:58:30 PST by John

Critical Articles by John Noē, Ph.D.
My response to Bob Garringer’s article “Things John Noe doesn’t know” (posted last week on this website) will be measured and brief. I will not comment on his style or tone. Others have already done that, quite adequately. Instead, and in the spirit of Proverbs 9:9 and 12:15, I will only respond to the one major and five minor but scholarly issues he raised in criticism of my book Beyond the End Times and PRI’s website

First, the major issue regards Mr. Garringer’s taking exception to my understanding of “the phrase ‘God, coming in the clouds’ or its equivalent.” Let us note that the field of eschatology is probably the only branch of theology in which everything is contested. And scholars do vary greatly on how to understand and treat the many comings of God in judgment and a “day of the Lord” in Old Testament times. But postmillennialist J. Marcellus Kik, for one, clings to a similar understanding as mine about the “ideas of judgment, and apocalyptic language and style.” He claims and I agree that in the New Testament “there is not a single figure employed [‘sun, moon, and stars,’ ‘the son of man riding on the clouds,’ ‘the fig tree’] whose use has not been already sanctioned and its meaning determined in the Old Testament.” He specifically cites “the figurative language of verses [Matt 24:] 29-31,” which includes Christ’s “coming on the clouds,” and concludes that “all events mentioned by Christ have found their fulfillment”—in A.D. 70. (See J. Marcellus Kik, An Eschatology of Victory (Phillipsburg, NJ.: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing, 1971), 156, [153].)

Secondly, regarding my quotation of C.S. Lewis, which Mr. Garringer terms “the most disturbing example of John’s abuse of sources outside of Scripture.” When this quote appeared in BTET’s first edition (July 1999) it was not fully or properly reproduced. However, and as I informed Mr. Garringer during our private email correspondence prior to the posting of his article, this was fully corrected in the second edition (May 2000). I further suggested that if he was going to persist in using this criticism against me, he should at least update it. Apparently, he has chosen not to do so.

Thirdly, regarding BTET being named by Christianity Today magazine as one of the top three books in its “The Millennial Book Awards” article (Oct. 25, 1999, pp-77-78). This article is in the public domain and a documented fact. At the bottom of the first page in BTET’s second edition, this recognition is printed and referenced. FYI – the winning book was: The New Millennium Manual: A Once and Future Guide by Robert G. Clouse, Robert N. Hosack, and Richard V. Pierard, Baker Books. BTET was a “runner-up” along with Three Views on the Millennium and Beyond by Darrell Bock, editor, Zondervan. I considered these two other books reputable since they were written by legitimate scholars and published by credible publishers. I still do. Check out the article for yourself. And please note that even though writer, Mark Galli, terms BTET “unconvincing (at least to this amillennialist),” he concedes that it—i.e., “preterism does have an internal logic that makes for exegetically interesting reading.”

Fourthly, regarding my use of a Josephus’ quote to support my claim that first-century Jews considered their Temple as “a heaven and earth.” This reference was a minor part of one of “Ten Revelational Insights” I presented in a forty-one-page chapter re: the true identity of “The New Heaven and New Earth.” Even if Mr. Garringer’s understanding of Josephus’ language is the correct one (and I am not convinced it is), he leaves the impression that my whole case rests on this one minor, supportive point. It does not. But so far, he has not addressed any of my other, more substantial, and scriptural insights.

(For an exposition of what the Jewish Rabbis taught and believed about their Temple as the center of the earth and its connection with heaven, see Abraham Cohen, Everyman’s Talmud: The Major Teachings of the Rabbinic Sages (New York: Schocken Books, 1949, 1995), 30-43.)

Fifthly, my understanding of the eternality of the present earth, the sky, the sun, the moon, and the heavens, etc. is based on Scripture (Gen. 8:21-22; Eccl. 1:4; Ps. 78:69; 89:36-37; 93:1; 96:10; 104:5; 119:90; Eph. 3:21, and many more). It is not based on the findings of secular scientists, the so-called second law (theory) of thermodynamics, or entropy, or a cited newspaper article. I see no reason to change what I’ve written, based on Mr. Garringer’s criticism, so far.

Sixthly, regarding my attribution of Isaiah 40:22 to a cited Christopher Columbus quote. Perhaps, this is Mr. Garringer’s most valid criticism. While I have not consulted the books he referenced, I have placed his comments on this issue in my “next edition-revision” file for BTET. (I have a similar file for each of my books and other writing projects.) At that time, I will reconsider his criticism on his point. But this issue is so minor in support of the major contention made in this chapter that if I determine he is right, I will simply delete this reference.

In the meantime, I will be looking forward to seeing Mr. Garringer’s next two articles attempting to refute some of the more substantive and scriptural issues in BTET. (This is not a satirical comment).


 
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Re: A Response to ‘Things John Noe doesn’t know’ (Score: 1)
by SuperSoulFighter on Tuesday, February 22 @ 12:46:02 PST
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Thank you for that good response, John. I found your book "Beyond the End Times" helpful in presenting the case for Preterism's cosmology to immediate family and friends. You have an engaging, approachable style and I, personally, found myself in agreement with most of the material. Certainly, we share identical views in the area of the planet's, sun's and universe's eternality.

Thanks again for defusing Bob's argument and critique of your material, and for your honesty in making any and all corrections necessary. We, as Preterists, value your thoughts and writings. May our Sovereign Lord supply you with an abundance of strength and grace in these days, as we continue to challenge the strongholds of futurism on a global scale.

Laboring with you in the Truth,

John McPherson


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Re: A Response to ‘Things John Noe doesn’t know’ (Score: 1)
by judge on Tuesday, February 22 @ 12:57:58 PST
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John Noe:regarding my use of a Josephus’ quote to support my claim that first-century Jews considered their Temple as “a heaven and earth.”


Judge:

I wonder if aany one can tell me where Josephus does this?


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Re: A Response to ‘Things John Noe doesn’t know’ (Score: 1)
by leslie on Wednesday, February 23 @ 10:20:24 PST
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Thank-you Virgil for posting the link. I had heard David Curtis say where it was during a sermon, but could never find what I was looking for. I was mainly looking for the words Heaven and Earth closer together and was rushing through.
John, great rebuttal. I cann't wait for Bobs installments #2 and #3. As some say on this site. Iron sharpens iron. Let the sparks fly. (Is Bob mad at you for some reason, he seems to be making this 'reasoning' very personal) Leslie


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