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What was the appearance of God the Father? Like that of a man...God has the likeness of fingers and hands and a face.
-- Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Benny Hinn, Word, 1991) p. 82
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Preterism: Spiritual Gifts
Posted on Monday, September 20 @ 08:43:24 PDT by Virgil |
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Andre submitted: "I would say that the majority of e-mail we get is hate-mail from people who express their disapproval of preterism. This time, Andrew is asking: "I wanted to know the preteristic understanding of the gifts mentioned in the Scriptures...
I am sure Andrew would appreciate some kind answers from those frequenting the site..."
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Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
 by Ed on Monday, September 20 @ 10:16:40 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Most preterists, I would venture to guess, would say that the "spiritual gifts" ceased in AD70, when Jesus returned. I am not so sure that I agree with that (and there are a number of preterist friends of mine who would agree with me).
While I am convinced that "tongues" had a specific eschatological purpose, and therefore, most likely did cease, I am convinced that God is still actively working in His people, and the people of this age, His Kingdom Age.
The scriptures speak of the spiritual gifts in the first century to be "a down payment", or "a deposit" of the greater things to come. I infer from this that something greater was coming. Some say that this is speaking of the completed word/canon. As much as I love God's scriptures, seeing someone who has a fatal heart condition be totally healed in really awesome.
So, with the implication of something greater coming after the Parousia, plus the mention in the scriptures of the "power of the age to come", it seems to me that the God who was the same yesterday, and today(that would be in the eschatological period of AD30 to AD70), and FOREVER (which includes this age which has come) would still heal, give wisdom, knowledge, discernment, prophecy, perform miracles, and reveal His love for all humankind. These are the gifts mentioned in the bible.
I know that most here will disagree with me, mostly on the basis of the ceasing of the "ministry gifts" (apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist). But I have seen too much to turn back and deny the work I saw God perform. I know they weren't "mind over matter" healings, i.e., psychosomatic, and they weren't "the devil" deceiving us (since Jesus destroyed satan in AD70). It was God, and I don't see where His bible demands that we believe that He doesn't work that way anymore (and don't use those worn out Reformed proof texts about "ceasing" - they clearly speak of Paul "knowing in part", and that THEN -which is now - we would be FULLY KNOWN).
Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to get a word in BEFORE everyone else tells Andrew that God doesn't do that anymore. |
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- by JL on Monday, September 20 @ 11:33:48 PDT
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Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
 by BigD on Monday, September 20 @ 12:53:15 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | We have to be careful also to make certain that people asking questions or making statements about "spritual gifts" are using the same definition we are. Most churches have programs with lengthy surveys to help people determine their "spiritual gifts" to help the staff decide whether they should be working in the kitchen, nursery, teaching adult BS, or directing traffic in the parking lot. It has always bothered me that certain skill sets, possessed by Christians and pagans alike, get identified as "spiritual gifts" and similarly, afflictions common to both groups get identified as God's "discipline" on Christians or "punishment" on sinners and non-believers.
Dave |
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- by Andre on Monday, September 20 @ 16:06:41 PDT
- by sunflower on Tuesday, September 21 @ 13:52:56 PDT
- by Parker on Tuesday, September 21 @ 14:34:16 PDT
Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
by Parker on Monday, September 20 @ 17:25:46 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | For a spirit-filled preterism, see this site:
preteristvision.org
http://www.preteristvision.org
Here's a commentary on 1 Cor 13 from that site as well:
http://www.preteristvision.org/commentaries/1cor13.html
The Church is "charismatic" - i.e., spirit-filled. |
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- by Andre on Monday, September 20 @ 19:10:44 PDT
Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
by Dana_Nathan_Salsbury on Monday, September 20 @ 17:30:21 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Hi All,
Good article. Of course I have to chime in on the topic. I wrote an article a while back that you might find interesting.
-Dana
PS: I pry won't have time to debate...I work in politics and this election is kicking my behind! |
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- by JL on Monday, September 20 @ 18:14:08 PDT
- by Parker on Tuesday, September 21 @ 07:25:34 PDT
- by JL on Tuesday, September 21 @ 09:59:26 PDT
- by Ed on Tuesday, September 21 @ 16:45:41 PDT
Spiritual Gifts Discussion Needed (Score: 1)
by EWMI on Monday, September 20 @ 18:23:25 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | A significant proportion of new Consistant Preterists are Charismatic. Many Charismatics are making the journey. The question of Gifts must be dealt with in a diplomatic and open handed manner.
Before too long Charismatics will make up the largest demographic in the Preterist community.
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- by Andre on Monday, September 20 @ 19:07:08 PDT
- by Seeker on Tuesday, September 21 @ 06:45:51 PDT
Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
by Parker on Tuesday, September 21 @ 07:20:45 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | Church history is overwhelmingly "charismatic" concerning the work of the Holy Spirit. See link for example:
Timeline of the Spirit Gifted
http://www.preteristvision.org/holyspirit/timeline_of_Spirit.html
Do Miracles Still Occur?
http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Miracles_Still_Occur.asp |
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Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
 by davo on Tuesday, September 21 @ 18:33:25 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) |
The "silence" arguments of Cessationalism are deafening, typically appealing to the excesses of "experience" [sensationialism-emotionalism], yet such notions often being driven typically by experience i.e., from the lack of their own.
It is too easy to take certain "context" based biblical injunctions and make them 'law' in an attempt to disqualify and thus nullify certain practices that don't suit one's theological bent.
From an above response:
Sunflower: The reason I’m concerned about this issue is that I’ve seen what this belief can do when the spiritual gifts are withheld, for no apparent reason, from some who are diligent seekers. Does this somehow make them less spiritual or less loved by God?
The above can be a legitimate concern. Unfortunately the trappings of "religion" foster a 'them-us' mentality and life style. What Paul in his first-fruits setting meant by edification for all, in the "religious" setting gets summarily turned on its head and becomes a 'ladder of opportunity' to greatness i.e., a badge of spirituality – and that is what "religion" fosters. The gifts in their many and varied forms were given to enhance "relationship" – the ultimate of which brought maturity. That which was consummated in the Parousia is simply maintained as God fills all-in-all.
I personally love Pentecost – it's -alism I have some issues with. "Pentecostalism" has just become another religious brand – one of the many. The idea [in relation to "gifts"] that anybody can do anything, one just has to learn how, is false, and totally ignores Paul's rhetorical caveat:
1Cor 12:29-30 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
davo |
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- by Andre on Tuesday, September 21 @ 21:06:57 PDT
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- by Andre on Wednesday, September 22 @ 07:31:43 PDT
- by davo on Wednesday, September 22 @ 18:45:38 PDT
Re: Spiritual Gifts (Score: 1)
by andrethethinker on Saturday, October 09 @ 12:47:28 PDT
(User Info | Send a Message) | "Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, AND HAVE TASTED that good word of God, and THE POWERS OF THE AGE TO COME..."(Heb. 6:1-5)
If all of these theological doctrines (mentioned above) are considered but elementary what comes next? Second, for a preterist who asserts that we do now live in "the age to come" should we not therefore expect more now than in the previous old covenant age in which even those in the new testament church had but a taste of the powers of the age to come? |
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