You are hereWhosoever (Doesn't Mean Them...)

Whosoever (Doesn't Mean Them...)

  • strict warning: Non-static method view::load() should not be called statically in /home/vaduva/planetpreterist.com/sites/all/modules/views/views.module on line 842.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_argument::init() should be compatible with views_handler::init(&$view, $options) in /home/vaduva/planetpreterist.com/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_argument.inc on line 745.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter::options_validate() should be compatible with views_handler::options_validate($form, &$form_state) in /home/vaduva/planetpreterist.com/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter.inc on line 589.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter::options_submit() should be compatible with views_handler::options_submit($form, &$form_state) in /home/vaduva/planetpreterist.com/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter.inc on line 589.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter_boolean_operator::value_validate() should be compatible with views_handler_filter::value_validate($form, &$form_state) in /home/vaduva/planetpreterist.com/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter_boolean_operator.inc on line 149.

By jcarter - Posted on 23 September 2009

by Jeff Carter
Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.
Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.
The abortionist doctor with blood on his hands,

drug abusing guitarists and their hard rock bands,

inarticulate plumbers whose pants don’t fit,

and pit-bull hockey moms with their bright red lipstick.


Migrant workers who don’t speak American,

the clumsy and oafish appliance repairman,

the angry punk rocker with a tattooed lip,

the single mother with a baby on each hip.






Opera devotees who support PBS,

expensive German Freudian psychiatrists,

coalminers and their beautiful young daughters,

and all crooked slime-ball Illinois governors.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




Those oily pimple face teenaged comic book geeks,

lonely suicidal train riding circus freaks,

depressing French existentialist poets,

powerful African warlords with massive debts.






The homeless, unemployed, schizophrenic woman,

the doomsday prophet without a survival plan,

blushing virginal brides dressed in fine white gowns,

back alley prostitutes on the wrong side of town.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




The compulsive gambler who can’t feed her kids,

and the NASCAR driver whose life is on the skids,

the transgendered, the homosexual, the lesbian,

and desperately out of work librarians.






Keep out all those criminals who live behind bars,

and the repo-man who’s come to take back my car,

dictators, premieres, and cowboy presidents,

and job stealing wetback illegal immigrants.






Baptists, Catholics, and Unitarians,

nursing homes full of grey octogenarians,

crazy people who love dogs instead of cats,

pacifist Amish and their ridiculous hats.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




Silicone and surgically augmented porn stars,

hot shot lawyers driving their gas guzzling foreign cars,

anyone who is slowly dying of AID’s

frustrated housewives yelling at Hispanic maids.






Small business owners who can’t pay back their loans,

the Hindu worshipping at a shrine made of bones,

the Canadians with their socialist ways,

and the dope smoking pot-head who lives in a daze.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.


Settled Jews and the displaced Palestinians,

liberal and revisionist historians,

those union members that are always on strike,

the lousy stand-up comedian at the mic.






The pastor at the pulpit in the church across town,

and the arsonist who burnt all those houses down,

heroin junkies in search of their next fix,

aging Swedish Lutherans with their lutefisk.






Syro-Phonecian mothers with dying children,

those unacceptable Samaritan women,

the swarming mass of illiterate peasants,

Roman centurions and their favored servants.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




Evolutionists who believe we’ve come from apes,

the man in the next county on trial for rape,

card carrying members of the NRA,

the father who won’t accept that his son is gay.






Those non-violent protesters who refuse to fight,

and on-the-go soccer moms who can’t sleep at night,

young people who shouldn’t complain, but still do,

sleazy Wall Street insiders and stock brokers too.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




Janitors, receptionists, doctors, and nurses,

tailors, and authors, and cooks, and men who drive hearses,

jury members who refuse to find “guilty,”

and grizzled old fishermen who harvest the sea.






Japanese investors calculating their Yen,

men in a mid-life crisis remembering when,

long-winded atheists who can’t explain why,

all those idiots voting for the other guy.






Young Somalians suspected of terrorism,

college professors who teach our kids Marxism,

over-paid athletes and their oversized egos,

actors, singers, and dancers from off Broadway shows.






Let’s build a wall to keep them out

all those folks we could just do without.




Radical Muslims who despise our way of life,

Mormons in Utah who still have multiple wives,

government officials who don’t give a damn,

IRS agents collecting for Uncle Sam.






Please tell us Lord Jesus that we have done the right

to keep out all those people that you just don’t like;

the blacks and the Asians, Hispanics and Jews,

excepting, of course, Jews who say they love you.






jcarter's picture

and the place blows up.

1) Thanks to you who said kind things about my presentation at TV 09.

2) Thanks to whoever it was who compared the librarian line to something Steve Taylor would have written. Now THAT's a compliment!

3) Thanks to eveyone for posting so vociferously

4) Why did I write it? What's the point? That the gospel is fore everyone; for the "sick" (and that, as far as I can tell, includes all of us.)

5) I am, confessedly, from the Armenian side of the theological fence - so I do believe that the offer of God's grace is to anyone and everyone without limit...

6) my favorite line is the "doomsday prophet without a survival plan"

7) I forget what 7 was for

8) Thanks again.

There is no life without prayer. Without prayer there is only madness and horror. - Vasilii Rozanov

Sam's picture

Apparently, the gospel is only for the righteous, not the sick.

Sam

tom-g's picture

Yes Sam, I would agree that is true. And if reformed theology is correct, then the gospel is only for those regenerated ones in the world whom God in his foreknowledge has chosen and called and predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ through the gospel, not the sick ones in the world.

Tom

Mick's picture

And if reformed theology is correct...

Speaking as an "Arminianist" of course reformed tehology is wrong.

Mickey E. Denen

tom-g's picture

But Mick,

Was I correct in my assessment of Reformed theology?

Tom

Ed's picture

That's

Fair...I see.

Isn't it good Tom that God didn't make you like the rest of us sinners. Good for you.

ed

Papa is especially fond of us

tom-g's picture

Thanks Ed,

I am very fortunate indeed that Christ has made it possible for me to be one of His and I have absolutely taken advantage of his sacrifice on my behalf through the gospel.

Perhaps you also ought to think about accepting the gospel of his sacrifice on your behalf.

If you also were one who is blessed whose sins are covered and to whom God is not imputing sin then there would no longer be any difference between us.

Tom

Ed's picture

Oh believe me Tom, I am infinitely happy that I am no longer like you. I will admit that at one time I was, thinking that everyone who looked different than me, spoke different than me, and believed differently than me was going to hell.

I pray that you will find out the errors of your pharisaical ways prior to your physical death, but I am afraid that I have seen no sign of movement towards grace. Your words may appear to the self-righteous to be ones of grace, but in your mind that grace never extends past the end of your nose.

LORD JESUS, have mercy on me a sinner. And LORD have mercy on this pharisee, Tom. I pray that he will know your grace before seeing you face to face.

ed

Papa is especially fond of us

tom-g's picture

Ed,

It seems that you do not even know what the grace of god is. If you think I or you or any other person has any grace then you need to repent and believe the gospel then not by the works of your grace but the gift of the grace of God you can be saved.

Even those parasites who depend for their livelihood on the taxes collected by big intrusive government using the law to take money away from those who have earned it, can be saved. I know you can do it Ed.

Tom

SuperSoulFighter's picture

Alot of the people on that list are welcome on my side of the "wall". But I don't have a problem closing the gate to some of them. Is that the idea here, Jeff? That God loves and accepts all who come to Him in repentance? God sees all of mankind on equal terms?

I'm not sure I picked up on the point you're seeking to make in this poem but it was enjoyable to read anyway! Thanks!

JM

SuperSoulFighter's picture

Oh...by the way..."desperately out of work librarians" was one of the quirkiest - and funniest - lines in this poem. Was that a commentary on modern illiteracy and the general addiction to visual media? Just curious. Almost reminds me of a line Steve Taylor might have written in one of his songs.

Ed's picture

Jeff,
I for one am glad that God didn't make me like those people that you mention in your poem...oh wait...well...maybe...

LORD, have mercy on me, a sinner!

ed

Papa is especially fond of us

Sam's picture

Jeff,

One of the highlights of Virgil's conference this year was meeting you and hearing your lectures. This stuff does not need a comment.....just read it....think....let it sink in......

If your response to this is, "see, those liberals over there say everything goes, let's just do whatever we want...." Then, you have not read it with humility...are you one of the people we should keep out, too?

Sam

Barry's picture

Great thoughts Sam.
Just a thought that comes to mind:

The opposite of humility is not really pride, but rather peace. Pride is a byproduct of an absence of peace.

IMO it is in this absence of peace that legalism and sectarianism (and much more) finds its roots.

And He shall be called "Prince of Peace".

It is in this peace that we find "love, joy, and kindness" to walk humble with our Lord.

Barry

we are all in this together

Barry's picture

Boy do I wish there was a edit button LOL!
I'll try again:
"The opposite of Pride is not Humility but rather Peace. Pride is a byproduct of an absence of peace. Humility is the outcome of Peace."

Barry

we are all in this together

Virgil's picture

Sam, I agree - I think Jeff's presentations were some of the most eye opening ones I have seen in a long time!

tom-g's picture

Sam,

The above is a perfect example of why I chose not to attend Virgil's post modernist Emergent Cohort conference this year.

And I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord that God did build a wall to keep out all of "them" of the ecumenical social gospel in Jeff's poem that don't like Jesus.

It's called the gospel of Christ and the wrath of God abides upon "Them" that Jeff's incomplete list identifies.

Thank you Lord Jesus for providing only one gate as the way over your insurmountable separationist wall.
Tom

flannery0's picture

Sam, Your point has just been proven.

Virgil's picture

Tom, so you did not attend but you claim to know about the orgy we had in Sam's hotel room that night? Now how could you possibly know that if you did not attend at all? Aren't you judging a bit too harsh not having been there?

tom-g's picture

Hey Virgil,

Since I have said I was not there, until you have just provided the information "about the orgy that we had in Sam's hotel room that night", I was not aware of the fact that there was an orgy in Sam's hotel room that night.

Because of my knowledge that both you and Sam are married men and fathers and because of my own high personal opinion of your moral character, I would neither believe nor claim that you and Sam had an orgy in Sam's hotel room that night.

So, could you please provide and reprint here on PP the posting where I have made the claim that you assert?

Thank you
Tom

Virgil's picture

No Tom, you said that Jeff's poem was an example of why you did not attend. So obviously you've made a whole lot of assumptions about what went on at the conference this last time...since Jeff's poem was an example. Why would you then be surprised at my comment? :)

The truth is Tom that you know very well that I invited you to be one of the speakers. You did not show up; instead you judge and make assumptions.

tom-g's picture

So Virgil,

Are you now saying you were in error by asserting that I claimed you and Sam had an orgy in Sam's hotel room that night?

I would think at the very least that you would apologize to Sam for making such a statement that he was in an orgy in his hotel room that night.

Also, I thanked you for inviting me to be a speaker, however when you made the offer you failed to inform me that PP would no longer be the sponsor of the conference. you were well aware of my opinion that I do not consider the Dayton Emergent Cohort, the sponsor of the conference, a Christian organization.

The theme of this Emergent Conference that Jesus was a subversive conspirator and that the speakers were the main conspirators at this conference was abhorrent to me and I consider it the rankest of blasphemy. From which the scripture commands us to withdraw and not be a part of.

Tom

Virgil's picture

No, I wasn't in error..in fact we apparently even performed abortions at the conference...since abortionists are mentioned in Jeff's post; you said "the above is a perfect example of not attending." Orgies, abortions and everything else included in the example. Were you wrong in your wording or formulating of your comment to Sam, or were you referring to something else as an "example" of not attending? What is a "perfect example" for not attending, if orgies and abortions and everything else mentioned is not accurate?

Also, why is the Dayton Emergent Cohort not a Christian organization? Do you know who the group is composed of in order to make this claim?

Ed's picture

Virgil,
as is evidenced by Tom's continuing comments, no one here is a Christian except him...at least since Roderick left.

sorry to be so blunt, but I am tired of his trolling, and his phariseeism.

ed

Papa is especially fond of us

tom-g's picture

Ed,

It seems you have learned a new word. If by the term "phariseeism" you mean I believe in the resurrection of the dead and that I believe our Lord Jesus was crucified and God raised him from the dead, then I thank you and plead guilty.

I pray that you also will become such a pharisee and begin to troll in like manner.

Tom

Ed's picture

No Tom,
by Phariseeism, I mean that you look down your nose at others. While the pharisees of Jesus' day would not even speak to the tax collectors and sinners, Jesus ate and drank with them, offering them grace.

Based on your comments on Jeff's excellent poem, I can picture you standing at a distance, keeping away from "tax collectors and sinners," while our Lord has called us to give them grace and mercy.

No Tom, it is you that doesn't know or understand the Lord's grace. You are self-righteous and egotistical. There is not a hint of grace towards others in your soul.

As John the apostle said, "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."

And as Paul said, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

But in your mind, those mentioned in Jeff's poem are not worthy of God's grace. They are "the unclean" in your eyes.

Pride is a dangerous thing Tom. You may want to ask the Lord what to do about it.

ed

Papa is especially fond of us

tom-g's picture

Ed,

you are so caught up in your false ecumenical universalism you don't even express a knowledge of the gospel.

But in any case, let me quote for you the concluding verse of this "excellent poem"
"Please tell us Lord Jesus that we have done the right
to keep out all those people that you just don’t like;
the blacks and the Asians, Hispanics and Jews,
excepting, of course, Jews who say they love you."

Did you notice who it is who "just don't like the blacks and the Asians, Hispanics and Jews"? It's not the persons who built the wall, it's the Lord Jesus who doesn't like those people.

This poem is evidently composed by someone who hasn't the faintest idea of the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to all who believe.

you need to read and understand the apostle John's second letter.
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus the Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an Antichrist." "If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

You Ed, may choose to be a partaker with those who deceive through false doctrine, I do not.

Tom

jcarter's picture

I think you've misinterperted the poem

and

that might be MYd fault. Irony may not translate well...

You said: "It's not the persons who built the wall, it's the Lord Jesus who doesn't like those people."

It should be understood that the wall in the poem is built by those who ASSUME that the people they hate are the people that Jesus hates. But something within them recognizes that they've made a bad assumption somewhere along the way, which is way they, at the end of the poem, are begging for validation for their hatred.

I'm sorry if this has caused any consternation

There is no life without prayer. Without prayer there is only madness and horror. - Vasilii Rozanov

tom-g's picture

Thank you Jeff,

I was not caused any consternation by the use twice in the last verse of the second person personal pronoun, YOU, the antecedent of which was the noun Lord Jesus. I understood it to be perfectly consistent with understanding the whole poem.

I am a great admirer of the use of Irony. The use of words and phrases with the exact opposite meaning of their normal customary meaning. There is also the great danger that the irony may not be understood and will be interpreted literally.

For the idea that we have built a wall to keep out those we do not like to be irony the exact opposite meaning of the personal pronoun WE is the real truth, which would be the truth you clearly express in your last verse to demonstrate the irony of all of the preceding verses, when you shift from We do not like, to YOU do not like. Thus the true meaning that it was the Lord Jesus who was the real builder of the wall.

Tom

Virgil's picture

Ed, I am not tired of Tom. I reach out to him over and over again, inviting him to speak to the conference, asking him to explain his position and being patient with him as much as I possibly can (considering his attitude), but he it's not working. He wasn't there at all, so I am trying to understand what he thinks took place at the conference this year??

He seems to think that a lot of really bad things happened and he won't tell me why he thinks that or what exactly took place.

tom-g's picture

Virgil,

I would think that your better judgment, upon mature consideration, will enable you to recant the statements you have made.

Not only could your statements be wrongly IMO construed to blacken the reputations and moral character of you and Sam, which those who desire to discredit both of you will probably not be loathe to take advantage, but the link to your comment about abortions and abortionists could also wrongly IMO be construed to apply to any medical doctors in attendance at the conference

I have never thought or said anything about really bad things or anything else that happened at the conference since I was not in attendance.

You however, from first hand knowledge, are the one who claimed that an orgy occurred in Sam's hotel room that night. You, from first hand knowledge are the one who said that "in fact" abortions occurred.

I would again strongly urge you to admit the error of your statements and seek the forgiveness of those whom your comments may have harmed. I do not consider myself to be one of those, since I have many times counseled you that your emotional attachment to Emergence has clouded your judgment and reason.

I have also many times stated that I do not consider Emergence to be Christian. I consider it to be a social organization and like any other social organization it is engaged in attempting to provide for the creaturely comforts of humanity and alleviate the problems of society. And as any other social organization it welcomes as members in the organization all persons of any religious belief as well as atheists. Thus my statement that the poem expressed that ecumenical social action Emergence philosophy and why I did not attend the conference.

Tom

chef's picture

Tom, I pretty sure that most of the readership knows Virgil wasn't speaking literally of orgies and such, but was answering you sarcastically. I pretty sure you also know this too. So why are you "busting his chops" (not literally, but Euphemism-illy speaking). What dog do you have in this race, or are you just picking a bone with sweet ol Virgi-poo?

:0

Thanks, Chef Tony

Chef Tony

tom-g's picture

Thanks Chef Tony,

I have already repeatedly said I did not believe nor think that.

But, tell Me Chef Tony, does most of the readership also know that I did not claim what Virgil asserted that I claimed?

If you will notice in his latest response, "As far as "Emergence" goes, the definition of the word cohort is "group of persons." I obviously was not disagreeing with the word "Cohort", this is typical of Virgil's avoidance of admitting that "Emergence" is not Christian.

So, I would again ask Virgil, as I have repeatedly and he has repeatedly refused: "As far as "Emergence" goes" WHAT? Define "Emergence" Is every member of Emergence a Christian and is it a requirement that every member must be a Christian? Will you accept non-Christians into the Dayton Emergent Cohort?

Define the Dayton Emergent group of people (Cohort) Is every member a Christian and is it a requirement that every member be a Christian?

I am aware of a group of Christians who gather together and regularly attend the local Democratic Cohort to discuss politics, does that mean that the Democratic party is Christian?

My comment was that "Emergence" is not Christian and I gave my reasoning for that statement.

You ask am I busting Virgil's chops on this? My answer is ABSOLUTELY! What vital interest do I have? My answer is that it is false to claim something is Christian that is not Christian. That is false doctrine and makes the gospel of Christ of none effect.

You tell me Chef Tony: "Does an organization that includes Christians and Muslims and Hindus and atheists and Jews have the right to call itself a Christian organization?

Tom

davo's picture

To be honest Tom – the only real blight on the Gospel of Christ here is your own continual and demonstratable belligerence…

tom-g's picture

Davo,

To be honest you defame the gospel of Christ if you imply that the gospel has been expressed by anyone besides myself on this thread.

I thank you for recognizing my refusal to yeild to false doctrine and that I stand ready to earnestly contend for the faith that was once and forever delivered unto the saints. Perhaps you would be benefited by understanding that anything short of resisting false doctrine unto blood is not pleasing to Christ.

Tom

davo's picture

Ok Tom...

ChefTony's picture

Excellent retort Tom. Very astute indeed. Only if these thing were more plain earlier on we may avoided all the charged energy, huh. But then again, word games stimulate thought and logic. I'm glad to know that I'm not the only egotistical maniac Christian here. I praise the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father for such a kind revelation.

Good Communication is like clear and shallow river waters of life, which generates thoughts of God's handiwork and His grace as it moves in smooth harmony, caressing the smooth round stones beneath its steady course; whereas turbulent, and muddy waters hinder from view the simplistic clarity, so the schemes of perilous currents that devours the shape of jagged stones cannot be seen with expedient time.

Peace
Chef Tony

Chef Tony

tom-g's picture

Thanks Chef Tony,

I have made no personal claim of any kind, therefore I fail to understand how that qualifies me as an egotistical maniac.

My only personal claim is that I am a Christian and know the definition of what Christian is and what it is not.

To be personally attacked in the most vile of manner for personally confessing the gospel of Christ and standing ready to defend that faith and to persevere to the end by claiming Emergence is not Christian, is not an attack on me, it is an attack upon the truth of the gospel of Christ that I profess by advocates of false doctrines.

To convene a conference to portray Christ as a "Provocateur" and a "subversive conspirator" with the speakers at the conference labeled as the main conspirators today of that subversive conspiracy, is appropriate for an "Emergent Cohort", but not a Christian Cohort.

Am I the only one whose stomach still rebels to eruption at just the concept of portraying our blessed Lord and his beloved apostles in such a vile manner?

Not I,
Tom

Virgil's picture

See Tony, Tom thinks that he can make blanked comments about the conference and "Emergence" and get away with it, but when pressed about what he specifically means he doesn't want to deal with it. When I make suggestions about what he could mean, he claims it doesn't mean what I sarcastically suggested, so I am at a loss here :)

Virgil's picture

I have never thought or said anything about really bad things or anything else that happened at the conference since I was not in attendance.

Oh, Tom - I was under the impression that was the reason for not attending the conference - i.e. "the clear example" you are referring to in the poem posted above by Jeff - bad things happening or being said at the conference.

I still don't know what the example you are talking about it is, but having not attended, you should abstain for pointing out unclear things that could have been discussed or done. Jeff's poem lists a lot of possibilities, and I am not sure which one is an "example" of you not attending.

As far as "Emergence" goes, the definition of the word cohort is "group of persons." The Dayton cohort is a handful of local Christians meeting on a regular basis to discuss art, theology, books, etc. It includes myself, my wife, Mick Denen, and a couple of other people in the area. Are you suggesting that those of us who attend the meetings are not Christians? And if that's what you are saying, why are we not Christians?

Barry's picture

What did I miss???
Call me next time Virgil!
Barry

we are all in this together

Starlight's picture

Sam said ... "If your response to this is, "see, those liberals over there say everything goes, let's just do whatever we want...." Then, you have not read it with humility...are you one of the people we should keep out, too?

Well stated Sam.

Norm

tom-g's picture

Norm,

It is very instructive that YOU think that YOU are the one that has the ability to build the wall and that YOU are the one who determines who YOU should keep out.

Again I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord that YOU are not the one with the power or authority to make that decision. That does seem to be the difference between our Lord's church and the emergence church, doesn't it?

Tom

Starlight's picture

Sorry Tom,

I should have replied to Sam.

Norm

Recent comments

Poll

Should we allow Anonymous users to comment on Planet Preterist articles?
Yes absolutely
23%
No only registered users should comment
77%
What are you talking about?
0%
Total votes: 43