You are hereMy Conversion to Preterism Is ''At Hand''
My Conversion to Preterism Is ''At Hand''
Hi, everyone. My name is Mike Beidler and I … am a future preterist. Until early 2000, I was firmly entrenched in pre-tribulation dispensationalism. It was about that time that my best friend, a devout Roman Catholic, challenged me to defend the pre-tribulation rapture viewpoint using Scripture. Fancying myself fairly knowledgeable in all things Bible, I took his challenge to heart with a smug smile on my face.I began to write a personal commentary on all passages in the NT dealing with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and to develop a timeline of eschatological events from scratch to see if I came up with the same conclusions the Tim LaHaye crowd does. I never did finish that commentary; I never got around to completing the timeline either. I began to see that I had been inserting my own views on eschatology, the nature of the church, current events, etc., into the Scriptures.
Just prior to my daughter’s birth in early 2000, I came across a used book titled The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church, by Marvin Rosenthal. Skimming through the book, I was surprised to see that the argued viewpoint didn’t accept any of the major tribulation/rapture viewpoints as wholly correct. Figuring a good laugh was worth a few bucks, I bought the book and began to read. The “truth” presented in this book hit me like a Mack truck and I was forced to abandon a pre-tribulation rapture for a pre-wrath rapture viewpoint, which is essentially a synthesis of all the “truths” found in pre-, mid-, and post-tribulationism. The biggest “truth” I found in this book (as well as Robert Van Kampen’s The Sign and The Rapture Question Answered Plain and Simple) was that the “signs of the end” detailed in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse paralleled the opening of the seals of Revelation 6. (Allow me to digress for a moment and give you preterists a piece of advice: if you want a pre-tribulation rapturist to eventually convert to preterism, get him to become a pre-wrath rapturist first. It’s a real nice stepping-stone. The pre-wrath rapture viewpoint puts most of the eschatological events in the right chronological order, with the only problem being its futuristic timing.)
For the most part of two years, I preached the pre-wrath viewpoint and began to associate myself with The Sign Ministries (now a part of Sola Scriptura: www.solagroup.org). Then I asked a new friend of mine what he thought of the End Times, thinking he was a pre-tribulation rapturist, and that I could divide and conquer this man’s eschatological heart. He straight up told me: “Mike, you’re not ready for what I believe.” Refusing to back down, he directed me to R. C. Sproul’s The Last Days According to Jesus and David B. Curtis’ Berean Bible Church website (www.bereanbiblechurch.org). I wasn’t particularly convinced of Sproul’s position and I thought Curtis was a heretic.
But the seed was planted … Several months ago, I was surprised to find a member of my Sunday School class teaching on what he believed to be the correct eschatology: partial preterism. He had not thoroughly researched the topic (and I was more informed on the finer points than he was), but simply wanted to present the ideas he had come across in his search for “the truth.” He relied primarily on Sproul’s The Last Days … companion video series for his information. I asked to borrow them and, suffice to say, I was floored. (Another piece of advice: don’t have a potential convert to preterism start with Sproul’s book; have him or her start with Sproul’s superior video series.) After viewing this series, I rushed out to buy Kenneth Gentry’s Before Jerusalem Fell, Jonathan Seriah’s The End of All Things, and J. S. Russell’s The Parousia. Starting with Russell’s book, the seed began to sprout. In this case, the seedling was a bamboo shoot. (Have you ever seen bamboo grow???) As I began to research the partial preterist position (because, as you all know, consistent preterism is “heresy”!), I was still uncomfortable with some logical inconsistencies relating to issues such as a “Third Coming” of Jesus, two separate resurrections of the righteous and the wicked (whereas Daniel and John speak only of a general resurrection), etc. I began to wonder what the full preterist thought of these things. I was pleasantly surprised to find those inconsistencies resolved. I also discovered that the consistent preterist position was not heretical or offensive to my spirit, and I've begun to tread down this path to see where it takes me …
The reason I call myself a future preterist is because I know in my heart of hearts that preterism is the most hermeneutically correct eschatology, but I am still searching for answers. Some of the questions that I have are these:
(1) Why do consistent preterists not believe in the physical resurrection of believers, especially in the light of Corinthians 15? (And what exactly is the nature of Revelation 20’s “first resurrection” and logically assumed “second resurrection”?)
(2) Why do consistent preterists tell me to take the time-frame references literally, but they make the Millennium only forty years long? The severe truncation of the “thousand years” to a mere forty years does an injustice to the text. (However, Duncan McKenzie’s “premillennial preterism” is attractive to me and appears more scripturally solid.)
(3) Why is there a lack of patristic evidence in favor of a consistent preterist view?
(4) Why is there a lack of convincing commentary on Zechariah 14 from consistent preterists? (Heck, even Gentry’s weak “commentary” doesn’t convince me.)
Thanks in advance, everyone, for humoring my questions and being patient with me during my trek into this unknown country known as preterism.
Sincerely,
Mike Beidler, future preterist




(1) Why do consistent preterists not believe in the physical resurrection of believers, especially in the light of Corinthians 15? (And what exactly is the nature of Revelation 20’s “first resurrection” and logically assumed “second resurrection”?)
One of the problems with the "physical" resurrection is the illogical conclusions that it draws one to: Body-age, dead skin-recovery, unnecessary organs, atom recovery. Another is that both 1 Cor 15, and 2 Cor 5 tells us that the body we receive is NOT the body that we die with. The first resurrection has always been seen, by preterists - full and partial, as regeneration. The second resurrection was that which occured in AD70, when the living (righteous)and the dead (wicked) were raised from Hades.
(2) Why do consistent preterists tell me to take the time-frame references literally, but they make the Millennium only forty years long? The severe truncation of the “thousand years” to a mere forty years does an injustice to the text. (However, Duncan McKenzie’s “premillennial preterism” is attractive to me and appears more scripturally solid.)
The time references are such: the time is at hand, the last hour, the last day, the end of all things is near.... The thousand years is seen in other parts of scripture as figurative (a day is as a thousand years, a thousand years is as a day). The number 1,000 is clearly figurative in many other places: the cattle on a thousand hills, a thousand times ten thousand, 12,000 from every tribe of Israel. 1,000 is 10 cubed. You can see that 10 is one of the "perfect numbers", this time in quantity, while the cubing is indicative of God's Holiness (note that the Holy of Holies is cubed in Moses' Tabernacle, the Temple is a cube in Ezekiel, and the entire City is a Cube in Rev. 21).
The partial preterists claim that 1,000 always refers to MORE than one thousand. To prove this claim, they must prove that there were more than 12,000 saved from each tribe. The Full Preterist sees 1,000 as a complete number. The complete number of believing Jews came into the Church. The complete number of years were accomplished in the Interim Period (40 years), etc.
Re: Duncan's Premillennial Preterism. I agree that Duncan is very persuasive. He is a kind man, a godly man, who argues gently, as the scripture commands. He also is simply arguing the same point made by Grandfather Russell in the Parousia. These two points give him an edge. In spite of this, I disagree with him. However, I love him dearly, and don't care if he ever agrees with me on this point. The life of Jesus is real in him. He is truly a man of God. That is what matters to me. (I love you Duncan - even if you are wrong) :).
(3) Why is there a lack of patristic evidence in favor of a consistent preterist view?
Well, first of all, there is very little of the patristic writers' works that have been translated into english. Plus, since it is not infallible, it does not have the promise of preservation as the Word does. Some of it could have been lost. And finally, Ed Stevens thinks that all the believers were raptured in AD70. He believes that this is why there is a dearth of patristic preterists (I don't agree with him).
(4) Why is there a lack of convincing commentary on Zechariah 14 from consistent preterists?
Please visit Don Preston's website (it can be found on this site). He has an EXCELLENT series on Zechariah. Don is one right on guy (except on baptism :0 - sorry Don, I love you anyway).
I hope my comments here have helped. You may e-mail me if you would like. strangervms@hotmail.com.
Grace,
Val
Val (Mike) Smith
There are some excellent articles on the Preterist Archive site that I think effectively deal with the "millenium" issue, especially the Duncan Mckenzie paper.
"The Thousand Years Happened in the First Century" - Greg Kiser
"Problems with Premillennial Preterism" - Tracy D. VanWynGarden
www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/index.html
First understand that John sets forth the hermenuetic principle that the reader of Revelation must use, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and SIGNIFIED it by his angel unto his servant John." - Revelation 1:1. We are to take the things in this book metaphorically and not literally unless otherwise specified. Look at Revelation 20:1-2. Here we have an angel, a key, a great chain, a dragon and the thousand years all of which are metaphors i.e. Christ, power, authority, the devil and a period of time. Don't make the mistake of making literal "the thousand years" when it is listed with other metaphors. This is consistent with John's hermenuetic. At the very end of this book, Revelation 22:6 says "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servants the THINGS which must shortly be done." What things? All the things written in this book must shortly be done! The things in this entire book fall between those two bookends (Rev1:1 -Rev22:6).
The issue that eventually sold me, was that in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus taught that Heaven and Earth had to pass away before the Law could pass away. Did Heaven and Earth (old covenant system) pass away? I am sure you would say yes, because we don't observe every jot and tittle of the law anymore. The New covenant in Christ (new Heavens and Earth) is here now and forevermore. But notice carefully that at the end of Revelation 20 in verse 11, you will find Heaven and Earth passing away AFTER the "thousand years", "the devil and false prophet being thrown into the lake of fire", "the dead being judged" etc. So logic dictates that if these things happened before heaven and earth passed away and we are now in the new Heaven and Earth as described in Revelation 21, then those things in Rev 20 are past events. This is consistent when you understand that the Book of Revelation is the fullfilment of Israel's covenant eschatology and of the Avenging of the Apostles and Prophets. There are many other problems with premillennial preterism but these were some of the arguments that helped me.
"The End of ALL things is at hand (old covenant things); therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer."-1 Peter 4:7
--Batman
The article suggested by Batman is also on our site, at the following link:
Problems with Premillennial Preterism
Mike,
I differ from other preterists about the first resurrection. I view the "first" resurrection to be the resurrection of the just; the second resurrection is the resurrection of the unjust. It's like Daniel's two-fold resurrection or Paul, in Acts, stating that there is about to be a resurrection, both of just and unjust. The first is the just (the blessed); the second is the unjust (the cursed).
As for the thousand years, I write a little bit on that topic in my column "Is the millenium only in Revelation?" It's on the planetpreterist website. I argue for a connection between the thousand years in 2 Peter 3 and Revelation.
As for 1 Cor 15, that question is quite hefty. I would say shortly, however, that the language used in the text deals with the transformation from one covenant to another in Christ. While I don't comment on 1 Cor 15 specifically in my "Good News" article, it may help you to understand what I mean from an overall systematic approach. It can be found on the weblinks in planetpreterist. I plan to write more on 1 Cor 15 later.
I don't know why preterists wouldn't want to write on Zech 14. Why do you think there's a lack of commentary on this passage?
As for the church fathers, I cannot deny my honest opinion. For the most part they were partial preterists or historicists. Yet after having read their views and commentaries and thoughts, I must admit that I have little respect for their various and strange systems of interpretation. I speak generally here. My opinion is that they were quite error-prone, not only individually, but even as a whole. With that said, however, I still think that the good news has survived all along. The more you read the church fathers, I think, the more you'll recognize that their views were wacky and not in accord with the Scriptures.
By the way, your story was quite interesting.
Marcus Booker