You are hereHarry seems to be confused...
Harry seems to be confused...
Harryj, a new minister at some congregation recently contacted us about the "total confusion" in his church because some members are teaching this "A.D. 70 stuff". Interestingly enough, he actually contacted PlanetPreterist asking us for help to refute the "stuff". Maybe we can give Harry a hand?"I AM A NEW MINISTER AT THIS CONGREGATION.IT HAS TAKEN ME A FEW MONTHS TO FIND OUT THAT THESE MEMBERS ARE BEING TAUGHT THIS A.D. 70 STUFF. THEY ARE NOW TRYING TO CHANGE MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE, CONCERNING THESE ISSUES.WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A MEETING IN ABOUT ONE WEEK. I AM LOOKING FOR A GOOD DEFENSE FOR THEIR OFFENCE THAT I KNOW IS COMING.THANK GOD FOR LETTING ME FIND YOUR WEB SITE.I WOULD LIKE SOME (HELP) HARRYJ."
HARRYJ, do not get defensive or offensive.I would suggest, do as God says,"Let us Reason together."
Let Scripture speak for Scripture and Gods Will, will come through. In Christs Love Leslie
Brother Les
Sure Harry. How can we help you?
mrFOOLpreterist FKA as mrfullpreterist
Still searching to understand the Truth.
May I suggest you read THE END TIMES CONTROVERSY.
Yes, you could read this book - make sure you get a correct definition of preterism first...the authors of End Times Controversy seem to not know what preterism is, so it is ironic they put forth a book that supposedly deals with preterism.
I agree with coderguy. “The End Times Controversy” is an excellent refutation of both varieties of preterism. The basic problem with preterism is in making everything subject to the so-called “time texts”. It doesn’t matter how absurd the assertion, it had to have happened in 70 A.D. because of the “time texts”. This is an “Alice in Wonderland” mentality. The problem is preterists don’t understand that God doesn’t always reckon time the way we do. And so He can see events that may be separated by many years as though they were right together. An excellent example of this is Daniel’s prophecy of the 70 Weeks.
Besides this, I think much of the problem is a blinding bias against Dispensationalism.
Have a Nice Day
Zerubbabel:
The bias against Dispensationalism is that it is very misleading and full of holes. Dispensationalist teach more from the newspaper than from the Bible. The contexted and timing of Dispensationalists are mostly wrong. God did not make time for God. God made the concept of time for man. If man can not understand Gods timetable,and time statements, then God is the sower of confusion. If God sows confusion, he is not to be trusted as God, and the Bible is not to be trusted as being even close to being inspired. You know that the ist century people, when they were saying, "soon", "near","at the door",were not talking to us in 2004. They "were" talking to "them" in the 1st cenntury only.Thee end of the Age had come and we are now beyond that by 200 years. In Christs Love Leslie
Brother Les
Dispensationalism in a nutshell:
"Oh yes! I believe everything that Jesus said 100 percent! It's just that most of it doesn't apply to ME... cause I'm not a JEW..."
Here's a fun fact to bring up, the next time a dispensationalist uses the phrase, "but Jesus wasn't speaking to US, he was speaking to JEWS":
You can count on one hand the number of times Jesus spoke to non-Jews! By that criteria, we Christians don't need to follow 98% of what Jesus said. Isn't that interesting?
You sound like a man who had obviously not looked at the issue carefully. I have been taught several times that a basic hermenutic of the Bible is to understand the obscure in light of the sure. Nothing is more sure than the time texts in the issue of eschatology, and to try to explain them in light of "the resurrection of the dead" is going about it the wrong way. I think you should look at the preterist arguments more carefully.
One of THE best books I have read is "Last Days Madness" by Gary DeMar. Harry may wish to start with either that one or "The Last Days According To Jesus" by R.C. Sproul.
Blessings,
Bryan
a57chevypreterist@yahoo.com
Sure,
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
Seriously though, maybe someone could e-mail Harry the recently posted article, The Bridge From Furturism to Preterism, by Walt Hibbert. Or some similar overview of Preterism.
It will probably disorienting to people at first, but soon, Preterism may become the preferred eschatological view for sincere Bible students.
Peace,
Christian
Harryj,
The thing about preterists is that they tend to use a lot of scripture in justifying their conclusions. The only way to refute an incorrect understanding of Scripture is to understand thoroughly why they are coming to their conclusions. Preterists have many scriptures that they believe to support their view. In theory, the people with whom you are going to talk could use any of them as scriptural support. You ought to go through them systematically over the next week. Preterists have quite a bit of material available which explains their view. If you can read through some of this material in advance, you will be prepared to counter any unscriptural ideas that come up in the course of the discussion.
:-)
The thing about preterists is that they tend to use a lot of scripture in justifying their conclusions.
Imagine that, using a lot of scripture to justify conclusions!
Lest I confuse Harryj any further, I should state that I agree with the full preterist view. My response was good advice, of course, but a bit tongue-in-cheek. :-)
I have examined the scriptural evidence for the futurist position, and have done the same with the preterist position. That is how I came to embrace preterism! I think it is fair to say that most so-called "preterists" were once futurist dispensationalists. I would ask Harry, "Do you believe the bible?", and, "Do you trust the Spirit of God to open the eyes of your understanding according to the scriptures?" If the answer to both questions is yes, then I would encourage that he familiarize himself with the preterist position, without fear, to ascertain whether or not it is SCRIPTURAL.
albert burke
Harry-
1.) Pray
2.) Make a list of all New Testament passges regarding Jesus' coming and the judgment (Ex.- Mt. 10:23, Mt. 16:27&28, Mt. 24:20-34, James 5:7-9, 1 Peter 4:7,17, Revelation 1, Revelation 22, etc.). Go through each and list beside them any references that state time parameters. When you are through, gather together in one grouping all time statements that seem consistent.
3.) Be fearless
4.) May God bless you with his guidance.
Terry Hall
Dayton, Ohio
A Preterist understanding of prophecy has been excellent for me personally. As a Pastor it has solidified my understanding of the place of the People of God in the world today. Those in our care who have grasped Covenant Eschatology (Preterism) have also grown in grace.
A welcome (and unexpected) change in our church as a result of beginning to change our eschatolgy has been increased stability.
I would be happy to correspond with Harry privately if it would be of assistance to him.
Mistyped. Beyond that Age by "2,000 years". Leslie
Brother Les
Hi Harry!
I just went through the same thing, but am on the other side of the fence (I'm a Deacon, having to face my Elders on August 14th.) We all need a lot of prayer when making this difficult but important study, because change is difficult.
I'd recommend http://www.lighthouseproductionsllc.com/broadcast.htm and lots of coffee.
Another respondant was correct: Preterists LOVE inspired scripture, because inspired scripture is all that is needed (as well as a decent attention span.)
Our prayers are with you!
-Brad
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