You are hereThe Connections Between the Individual Beast of Revelation and the Little Horn of Daniel 7

The Connections Between the Individual Beast of Revelation and the Little Horn of Daniel 7

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By Duncan - Posted on 21 September 2009

by Duncan McKenzie
I have been working on a book for the last ten years entitled The Antichrist and the Second Coming. After a decade of work, the book became so long (about 1,000 pages) I am making it into two volumes. The first volume (which looks at Daniel and 2 Thessalonians) IS FINALLY OUT! You can purchase is here http://www.amazon.com...Here is something from the book: THE CORPORATE VS. INDIVIDUAL ASPECTS OF THE BEAST OF REVELATION In understanding the beast of Revelation there is a somewhat complicated but important concept that one needs to be aware of. Sometimes the beast is representing a confederation of eight (demonic) rulers and other times the beast is referring to the very powerful eighth ruler of that confederation (the beast from the abyss, Rev. 11:7; 17:8). This use of a dual reference to the beast can be seen in Revelation 17:7-11 where the beast is said to be both a confederation of eight kings and also the eighth of those kings.

But the angel said to me, ìWhy did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. emphasis mine Revelation 17:7-11

Again, the beast in Revelation is sometimes referring to the confederation of eight rulers and other times referring to the eighth of these rulers. Gentry wrote the following on this: ìMost commentators agree that the beast imagery in Revelation shifts between the generic and the specific. That is, sometimes the beast pictures a kingdom, sometimes an individual leader of that kingdomÖ.This feature, as frustrating as it may be, is recognized by commentators of all schools of interpretation.î What Gentry refers to as the ìgenericî aspects of the beast I call the ìcorporate beastî (the beast as a confederation of eight rulers); what he refers as the ìspecificî aspects of the beast I refer to as the ìindividual beastî (i.e. the especially powerful eighth ruler that was about to come out of the abyss). I will usually give the qualifier of either ìindividualî or ìcorporateî when referring to the beast to make it clearer which aspects I think are being highlighted. It is the individual beast, the eighth demonic king of the corporate beast, that is the Antichrist. Consider how Revelationís imagery of the beast can quickly shift from a corporate emphasis to an individual emphasis. In Revelation 13:3 one of the heads of the (corporate) beast is said to suffer a mortal wound. While the wounded head is referring to a specific ruler (the demonic king that worked through Nero), it is also making reference to how this rulerís fall (cf. Rev. 17:10) had a disastrous effect on the beast as a collection of rulers (i.e. the corporate beast). In Revelation 13:4-8 the focus quickly shifts from the (corporate) beast to the specific ruler (the individual beast) who blasphemes God and overcomes the dwellers on the Land (cf. Dan. 7:23-25). Beasley-Murray noted the following on this, ìThe beast [in Rev. 13:1] stands primarily for the empire, yet the transition is speedily made to the empire as represented in its ruler.î This transition from a corporate focus on an empire to a focus on an individual ruler (the Antichrist) is found in Daniel 7. As Daniel was considering the fourth beast and its ten horns (v. 7) all of a sudden the focus shifts to little eleventh horn that arises (v. 8). Another example of a rapid shift between the corporate and individual aspects of the beast of Revelation can be seen in Revelation 17:7-11. When John wrote Revelation, the sixth king (the demonic king working through Nero) of the (corporate) beast was currently ruling. The (individual) beast, the eighth king of the (corporate) beast (the demonic king that would work through Titus) had not come out of the abyss yet. The corporate beast (the confederation of demonic rulers) was currently in existence when John wrote even though the individual beast (the eighth of these rulers) had not come yet. Again, the individual beast is the Antichrist; he was the eighth ruler of the corporate beast. The individual beast corresponds to the little horn of Daniel 7. THE CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE INDIVIDUAL BEAST OF REVELATION AND THE LITTLE HORN OF DANIEL 7 Below are some of the connections between the little horn of Daniel 7ís fourth beast and the individual beast of Revelation. Again the little horn/individual beast is the Antichrist:

1. The little horn/individual beast is an eighth ruler (Dan. 7:8; Rev. 17:11). The little horn of Daniel 7 starts out as an eleventh ruler but becomes an eighth when three horns (rulers) are removed before him (11-3=8). The three horns are the three short-lived emperors of AD 68-69 that Titus and Vespasian were victorious over in their take-over of the Roman Empire. The reference to the 11/8th horn being ìlittleî speaks of Titus in AD 70. He was just a general when he destroyed the Jewish nation in AD 70 (cf. Dan. 9:26). The individual beast of Revelation is said to be an eighth king (Rev. 17:11).

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. Daniel 7:7-8

 

The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. Revelation 17:11

Daniel 7 provides the required background for identifying the beast of Revelation. Identifying Titus as the eleventh ruler (the little horn) of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 is much easier than identifying him as the eighth ruler of the beast of Revelation. That the little eleventh horn becomes an eighth ruler is the key to understanding the identity of the Antichrist in Revelation. When John wrote that wisdom was required to identify the beast (Rev. 17:9), I believe the wisdom he references comes from a proper understanding of Daniel 7 and its fourth beast (cf. Rev. 13:1-2). Look at the list of Caesars and observe that the eleven rulers minus the three pulled out in Daniel 7:7-8 equals the eight rulers of Revelation 17:9-11.

1. Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)

2. Augustus (31BC-AD 14)

3. Tiberius (AD 14-37)

4. Gaius (Caligula) (AD 37-41)

5. Claudius (AD 41-54)

6. Nero (AD 54-68) ‡Galba (AD 68-69) ------------- Otho (AD 69) 3 horns pulled out (‡----------------------Dan. 7:8) Vitellius (AD 69) ‡-------------

7. Vespasian (AD 69-79)

8. Titus (a general in AD 70) The conservative preterist position correctly says that the harlot of Revelation represents first-century Jerusalem (Rev. 17-18; cf. Ezek. 16).73 Our interpretation fits this perfectly. It was Titus who destroyed Jerusalem (cf. Dan. 9:26-27); if harlot Babylon refers to Jerusalem, then it follows that Titus should be the eighth king of Revelation 17 (the one who destroyed the harlot city). I was intrigued to learn that my interpretation of the little horn of Daniel 7 is consistent with the traditional Jewish interpretation. Jewish commentator Hersh Goldwurm (citing Rashi and others) writes the following regarding Daniel 7:7-8 and its eleven rulers: These ten horns were later (v. 24) identified by the angel as ten kings who would rule Rome before the destruction of the Holy Temple (Rashi) . . . During his fatherís reign, Titus, son of Vespasian, destroyed the Holy Temple (Mayenei HaYeshuah 8:5) . . . Another horn, a small one. This refers to Titus (Rashi). [Vespasianís son and eventual successor was in command of the Roman armies in the Holy Land and was responsible for the destruction of the Temple. He is referred to as another horn, a small one, probably because he was not yet emperor at this time.] . . . And a mouth speaking haughty [lit. big] words. Titus spoke and acted with great arrogance in the inner sanctum of the Holy Temple as recounted in Gittin 56b (Rashi). [Rabbi Hersh Goldwurm, Daniel: A New Translation with a Commentary Anthologized from Talmudic, Midrashic and Rabbinic Sources, ArtScroll Tanach Series, eds. Rabbis Nosson Scherman, Meir Zlotowitz (New York: Mesorah Publications, 1998), 201-203.] See Rashi's commentary at http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16490/showrashi/true 2. The little horn/individual beast speaks great blasphemies against God (Dan. 7:8, 11, 20, 25; Rev. 13:5-6).

Öthat [little] horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows. Daniel 7:20 He shall speak pompous words against the Most HighÖ Daniel 7:25

 

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemiesÖThen he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:5-6

Ladd notes the following on the blasphemous words of the (individual) beast in Revelation 13:5 and how it is a direct reference to the little horn of Daniel 7, ìThis [Rev. 13:5-6] is based directly on Dan. 7:8, 20, 25. The little horn had a mouth ëspeaking great thingsí and spoke ëwords against the Most High.íî Consider the following account from Jewish writings about the pompous words that Titus spoke when he destroyed the Temple: Vespasian sent Titus who mocked, Where are their gods, the rock in whom they sought refuge? (Deut. 32:37). This was the wicked Titus who blasphemed and insulted Heaven. What did he do? He entered the Holy of Holies and with his sword slashed the curtain. Through a miracle blood spurted forth and he thought he had killed God Himself. He brought two harlots and, spreading out a scroll beneath them, transgressed with them on top of the altar. He began to speak blasphemies and insults against Heaven, boasting ìOne who wars against a king in a desert and defeats him cannot be compared to one who wars against a king in his own palace and conquers him.î25 3. The little horn/individual beast wages war against the saints and overcomes them (Dan. 7:21; Rev. 13:7).

I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them... Daniel 7:21

 

It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. Revelation 13:7

The saints would have been understood by Daniel as the Jews. While the reference to saints is expanded in the NT to include believing Gentiles (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Rev. 3:9), the focus of the Antichrist is on the Jews and their Temple (Dan. 9:26-27; 11:40-12:1; 2 Thess. 2:4). While the great tribulation would come on the whole world, it would focus on the dwellers on the Land, the Jews (Rev. 3:10; cf. Rev. 11:2). Sulpicius Severus, a fourth-century Christian writer, painted a picture of Titus that showed ill intent to both Jews and Christians. In his Chronica, Severus writes: Titus is said to have first summoned a council and deliberated whether or not he should destroy such a mighty temple, for some thought that a consecrated shrine, which was famous beyond all other works of men, ought not to be razed to the ground. Their argument was that to preserve it would bear witness to the moderation of Rome, while its destruction would forever brand her as cruel. Others, however, including Titus himself, opposed this view and said that the destruction of the Temple was a prime necessity in order to wipe out more completely the religion of the Jews and the Christians; for they urged that these religions, although hostile to each other, nevertheless sprang from the same sources; the Christians had grown out of the Jews: if the root were destroyed, the stock would easily perish.34 It is suggested that Severusí source of information may have been the writings of Roman historian Tacitus, which are no longer extant.35 According to Severusí account, Titus was intent on destroying both Judaism and Christianity. This would be consistent with the idea that the Antichrist spirit was working through Titus as a means of eliminating Godís kingdom, destroying both Jews and Christians, root and branch. 4. The little horn/individual beast has a three and a half year reign of terror (Dan. 7:25; 13:5). The phrase ìa time and times and half a timeî of Daniel 7:25 is a period of three and a half. It is usually taken to be three and a half years or forty-two months, which is the form it takes in Revelation 13:5. This three and a half year reign of terror of the little horn/individual beast is the last half of Danielís seventieth week. It was the time of the coming of the one who would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple and make Israel desolate (Dan. 9:26-27). This last half of Danielís seventieth week would end with the destruction of the Jewish nation (cf. Dan. 12:7). This is shown in Revelation 11:2 where we are told that Jerusalem would be trodden under foot by the Gentiles for forty-two months. Forty-two months is the time that it took Titus to destroy the Jewish nation, from around March/April of AD 67 to August/September of AD 70.

ÖThen the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. Daniel 7:25

 

Ö and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Revelation 13:5

5. The little horn/individual beast is defeated by the Second Coming (Dan. 7:21-22; Rev. 19:11-13, 19-20). In Daniel this is shown as the coming of the Ancient of Days; in Revelation it is shown as the coming of the Word of God. In Revelation the Son of Man is shown as having the characteristics of the Ancient of Days (the white hair, Rev. 1:13-14; cf. Dan. 7:9) The Son of Man having white hair is symbolic of the eternality of Jesus (cf. Is. 9:6), the Word of God (John 1:1). The fact that Revelation shows the Son of Man as having the characteristics of the Ancient of Days is symbolic of the fact that Jesus is both God and Man. Revelation is thus showing Daniel 7ís coming of God to defeat the little horn in the form of the coming of the Word of God to defeat the individual beast. (Dan. 7:21-22; Rev. 19:11-21).

I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saintsÖ Daniel 7:21-22

 

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of GodÖAnd I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was capturedÖ Revelation 19:11-13, 19-20

6. The little horn/individual beast is thrown into the lake of fire at the time of the Second Coming (Dan. 7:11; Rev. 19:19-20).

I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. Daniel 7:11

 

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presenceÖThese two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. Revelation 19:20

Daniel 7:11 shows that the entire fourth beast (not just its little horn) was thrown into the fire at the coming of God. In Revelation it is the corporate beast (the eight demonic kings behind the pre AD 70 Roman Empire) that was destroyed at AD 70, not just the individual beast. Obviously the Roman Empire was not destroyed in the lake of fire at this time. An empire being thrown into the lake of fire (which is the second death, Rev. 21:8) does not make sense. What was thrown into the lake of fire at the AD 70 Second Coming was the confederation of eight spiritual rulers behind the pre-AD 70 Roman Empire (cf. Rev. 17:8-11). The Roman Empire had well over a hundred emperors over the course of its existence. The eight kings of Revelation 17:9-11 are ultimately demonic kings, not physical emperors; the fact that the eighth of these kings comes out of the abyss confirms this. A similar example of a confederation of spiritual rulers can be found in Daniel 10:13, where we are told of the "kings of Persia": ìBut the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.î Again, it was not Titus nor the Roman Empire that was destroyed at Jesus' Second Advent; it was the demonic beast from the abyss that was thrown into the lake of fire at AD 70. Finally, Revelation 17:8 NASB says, "the beast that you saw was, and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction . . . ." If the individual beast was about to come, then the Second Advent, when he is defeated, was about to happen (Rev. 19:11-21) Duncan www.TheAntichristandtheSecondComing.com

Duncan's picture

I am afraid my article got pretty messed up in translation. I apologize for its lack of readability. I do not have the ability to clean it up. Hopefully someone will. In the meantime let me at least attempt to give this part.

Daniel 7 provides the required background for identifying the beast of Revelation. Identifying Titus as the eleventh ruler (the little horn) of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 is much easier than identifying him as the eighth ruler of the beast of Revelation. That the little eleventh horn becomes an eighth ruler is the key to understanding the identity of the Antichrist in Revelation. When John wrote that wisdom was required to identify the beast (Rev. 17:9), I believe the wisdom he references comes from a proper understanding of Daniel 7 and its fourth beast (cf. Rev. 13:1-2). Look at the list of Caesars and observe that the eleven rulers minus the three pulled out in Daniel 7:7-8 equals the eight rulers of Revelation 17:9-11.

1. Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
2. Augustus (31BC-AD 14)
3. Tiberius (AD 14-37)
4. Gaius (Caligula) (AD 37-41)
5. Claudius (AD 41-54)
6. Nero (AD 54-68)
Galba (AD 68-69) ——————-
Otho (AD 69) 3 horns pulled out —————————— (cf. Dan. 7:8)
Vitellius (AD 69) ——————-
7. Vespasian (AD 69-79)
8. Titus (a general in AD 70)

The conservative preterist position correctly says that the harlot of Revelation represents first-century Jerusalem (Rev. 17-18; cf. Ezek. 16).73 Our interpretation fits this perfectly. It was Titus who destroyed Jerusalem (cf. Dan. 9:26-27); if harlot Babylon refers to Jerusalem, then it follows that Titus should be the eighth king of Revelation 17 (the one who destroyed the harlot city, vv.16-17).

I was intrigued to learn that my interpretation of the little horn of Daniel 7 is consistent with the traditional Jewish interpretation. Jewish commentator Hersh Goldwurm (citing Rashi and others) writes the following regarding Daniel 7:7-8 and its eleven rulers:

These ten horns were later (v. 24) identified by the angel as ten kings who would rule Rome before the destruction of the Holy Temple (Rashi) … During his father’s reign, Titus, son of Vespasian, destroyed the Holy Temple (Mayenei HaYeshuah 8:5) … Another horn, a small one. This refers to Titus (Rashi). [Vespasian’s son and eventual successor was in command of the Roman armies in the Holy Land and was responsible for the destruction of the Temple. He is referred to as another horn, a small one, probably because he was not yet emperor at this time.] … And a mouth speaking haughty [lit. big] words. Titus spoke and acted with great arrogance in the inner sanctum of the Holy Temple as recounted in Gittin 56b (Rashi).

[Rabbi Hersh Goldwurm, Daniel: A New Translation with a Commentary Anthologized from Talmudic, Midrashic and Rabbinic Sources, ArtScroll Tanach Series, eds. Rabbis Nosson Scherman, Meir Zlotowitz (New York: Mesorah Publications, 1998), 201-203.]

See Rashi’s commentary at http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16490/showrashi/true

Starlight's picture

Duncan,

How does the Epistle of Barnabas fair in accessing this prophecy?

Barnabas 4:3
The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh,
as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and
the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.
4 And the prophet also speaketh on this wise; TEN REIGNS SHALL REIGN
UPON THE EARTH, AND AFTER THEM SHALL ARISE ANOTHER KING, WHO SHALL
BRING LOW THREE OF THE KINGS UNDER ONE.
5 In like manner Daniel speaketh concerning the same; And I saw the
forth beast to be wicked and strong and more intractable than all
the beasts of the earth, and how there arose from him ten horns,
and from these a little horn and excrescence, and how that it
abased under one three of the great horns.

Some like Sam Frost put the dating of this epistle to around 70AD and I would concur except that I believe it was written shortly before.

Norm

Duncan's picture

Interesting stuff Norm. I had never seen that.

Duncan

Starlight's picture

Duncan,

My question was how does Barnabas stack up with your observation. Is there enough there to give an indication especially if this was right around 70AD.

Norm

Duncan's picture

Without the date it is hard to tell. If it could be shown that Barnabas was written after AD 70 then one could say "look this person did not believe Dan. 7 had been fulfilled in AD 70, he was still waiting for it to be fulfilled."

Now it is interesting, the author of 2 Esdras (aka 4 Ezra) writing around AD 96 sees Daniel's 4th kingdom but he adds another ruler (Domitian). thus, his beast has 12 rulers instead of the 11 of Daniel. He was trying to extent the prophecy just a bit.

Consider the descriptions of the two beasts. Daniel describes the fourth kingdom in the following manner:

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.
Daniel 7:7-8

In 2 Esdras, Daniel’s fourth kingdom is described thusly:

On the second night I had a dream: I saw rising from the sea an eagle that had twelve feathered wings and three heads . . . This is the interpretation of this vision that you have seen: The eagle that you saw coming up from the sea is the fourth kingdom that appeared in a vision to your brother Daniel. But it was not explained to him as I now explain to you or have explained it. The days are coming when a kingdom shall rise on earth and it shall be more terrifying than all the kingdoms that have been before it. And twelve kings shall reign in it, one after another . . . As for your seeing three heads at rest, this is the interpretation: In its last days the Most High will raise up three kings, and they shall renew many things in it, and shall rule the earth and its inhabitants more oppressively than all who were before them. Therefore they are called the heads of the eagle, because it is they who shall sum up his wickedness and perform his last actions.
2 Esdras 11:1; 12:10-14, 22-25

Starlight's picture

Duncan,

Like Revelation it appears that Barnabas internally would fit perfectly with a Pre AD70 observation. The question becomes does Barnabas discredit itself internally with any observations that would definitevely prove it post AD70.

I say the jury is still out but leaning heavily toward a Pre AD70 dating.

Norm

chrisliv's picture

Hey,

Congratulation on your book accomplishment, Duncan.

That is a worthy topic, with the potential to help shape and focus people toward a realization that Christ's Kingdom is a current reality, on Earth, for those who believe, rather than the carnal-minded viewpoints that it's pie-in-the-sky after-you-die, or a futuristic Millennial Utopia with a global Dictator Christ, or a gigantic cube-shaped Satellite called New Jerusalem that drops out of the sky at the end of the World.

Peace to you,
C. Livingstone

Duncan's picture

My book talks about some things that I do not think preterists have a very good handle on. For example, How many can you identify the man of lawlessness? Here is a hint, he is the same as the king of the North (cf Dan. 11:36-37 with 2 Thess. 2:4. That does not help much because most people can not identify the king of the North of Dan. 11:36-12:13. I go into these things in detail.

Give it to a dispensationalist; they tend to obsess about the Antichrist.

Duncan's picture

Check it out. Here are the top ten "hot" new sellers in prophecy on Amazon at the moment (it is updated hourly):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/new-releases/books/300199/ref=pd_nr_b_nav

It does not mean I have sold a lot of books, and I may be number 666 tomorrow, but right now I am up there with the (supposed) big boys.

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Duncan's picture

Points 2-4 are still a little lost in translation. Let me see if I can do a little better here.

2. The little horn/individual beast speaks great blasphemies against God (Dan. 7:8, 11, 20, 25; Rev. 13:5-6).

…that [little] horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows. Daniel 7:20 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High… Daniel 7:25

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies…Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. Revelation 13:5-6

Ladd notes the following on the blasphemous words of the (individual) beast in Revelation 13:5 and how it is a direct reference to the little horn of Daniel 7, “This [Rev. 13:5-6] is based directly on Dan. 7:8, 20, 25. The little horn had a mouth ‘speaking great things’ and spoke ‘words against the Most High.’”

Consider the following account from Jewish writings about the pompous words that Titus spoke when he destroyed the Temple:

Vespasian sent Titus who mocked, Where are their gods, the rock in whom they sought refuge? (Deut. 32:37). This was the wicked Titus who blasphemed and insulted Heaven. What did he do? He entered the Holy of Holies and with his sword slashed the curtain. Through a miracle blood spurted forth and he thought he had killed God Himself. He brought two harlots and, spreading out a scroll beneath them, transgressed with them on top of the altar. He began to speak blasphemies and insults against Heaven, boasting “One who wars against a king in a desert and defeats him cannot be compared to one who wars against a king in his own palace and conquers him.”
3. The little horn/individual beast wages war against the saints and overcomes them (Dan. 7:21; Rev. 13:7).

I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them… Daniel 7:21

It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. Revelation 13:7

The saints would have been understood by Daniel as the Jews. While the reference to saints is expanded in the NT to include believing Gentiles (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Rev. 3:9), the focus of the Antichrist is on the Jews and their Temple (Dan. 9:26-27; 11:40-12:1; 2 Thess. 2:4). While the great tribulation would come on the whole world, it would focus on the dwellers on the Land, the Jews (Rev. 3:10; cf. Rev. 11:2).

Sulpicius Severus, a fourth-century Christian writer, painted a picture of Titus that showed ill intent to both Jews and Christians. In his Chronica, Severus writes:

Titus is said to have first summoned a council and deliberated whether or not he should destroy such a mighty temple, for some thought that a consecrated shrine, which was famous beyond all other works of men, ought not to be razed to the ground. Their argument was that to preserve it would bear witness to the moderation of Rome, while its destruction would forever brand her as cruel. Others, however, including Titus himself, opposed this view and said that the destruction of the Temple was a prime necessity in order to wipe out more completely the religion of the Jews and the Christians; for they urged that these religions, although hostile to each other, nevertheless sprang from the same sources; the Christians had grown out of the Jews: if the root were destroyed, the stock would easily perish.

It is suggested that Severus’ source of information may have been the writings of Roman historian Tacitus, which are no longer extant.35 According to Severus’ account, Titus was intent on destroying both Judaism and Christianity. This would be consistent with the idea that the Antichrist spirit was working through Titus as a means of eliminating God’s kingdom, destroying both Jews and Christians, root and branch.

4. The little horn/individual beast has a three and a half year reign of terror (Dan. 7:25; 13:5).

The phrase “a time and times and half a time” of Daniel 7:25 is a period of three and a half. It is usually taken to be three and a half years or forty-two months, which is the form it takes in Revelation 13:5. This three and a half year reign of terror of the little horn/individual beast is the last half of Daniel’s seventieth week. It was the time of the coming of the one who would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple and make Israel desolate (Dan. 9:26-27). This last half of Daniel’s seventieth week would end with the destruction of the Jewish nation (cf. Dan. 12:7). This is shown in Revelation 11:2 where we are told that Jerusalem would be trodden under foot by the Gentiles for forty-two months. Forty-two months is the time that it took Titus to destroy the Jewish nation, from around March/April of AD 67 to August/September of AD 70.

…Then the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. Daniel 7:25

… and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Revelation 13:5

ThomasS's picture

For a more accurate presentation of the classic preterist interpretation of Daniel, see:

http://sefer-daniel.blogspot.com

Although I do not address all problems with an identification of the "little horn" with Titus, you will find an outline of most problems with an identification of the fourth kingdom with the Roman Empire.

Regards

Th.S.

yngwie7's picture

Hi Thomas,

On the link you provided it said: "There are several ways in which we can understand the symbolism of the four metals; we find traces of this symbolism in different ANE sources (Hesiod, Ovid, Zoroastrian texts). In some of these texts, the iron or something iron-mixed is used to signify Macedonian rulers!"

Do you have the references in these works where the Macedonians or Seleucids are associated with iron? If not, where did you get this information?

Thank you

ThomasS's picture

Hi!

I have to come back to your question when I have returned to my office. I'll answer ASAP.

Regards

Th.S.

ThomasS's picture

I am thinking of certain Zoroastrian texts. See:

D. Flusser: "The Four Empires in the Fourth Sibyl and the Book of Daniel", IOS 2 (1972), pp. 148-175.

S.K. Eddy: The King is Dead (1961), p. 19.

Hope this helps!

Regards

Th.S.

yngwie7's picture

Hey thanks for the references. I can't seem to find those books on amazon though. But I'll check some libraries I have access to.

Virgil's picture

You may have a better chance getting them used on abebooks.com - I found many hard to find books on that site.

Islamaphobe's picture

Duncan,

I had hoped to comment a little sooner but have been having to set the matter aside for a few days. I haven't bought the book yet but will do so in a few days as soon as I finish one I am currently digesting.

With regard to the identity of "the little horn" of Daniel 7 and "an eighth king" of Revelation 17, you make a good case for identifying him as Titus, but I remain of the opinion that a good case can still be made for him to be Vespasian. For one thing, Vespasian was actually "king" in AD 70. For another, while Vespasian arguably (IMO) can be credited with the "uprooting" Galba, Otho, and Vitellius, it is much more of a stretch to give that credit to Titus. Then, too, if you go with the idea that Daniel "saw" Pompey, the conqueror of Judea, as the first Roman "king," you can make Vespasian the eleventh "king." To do this, though, you have to scratch Antony. Also, Vespasian started out small because he did not come from the Roman nobility.

In any event, congratulations on getting this work into print. I look forward very much to reading it, and I wish you great success.

John S. Evans

Islamaphobe's picture

I meant to add that I very much like your comment that "The saints would have been understood by Daniel as the Jews." I might word it a little differently so as to mean the people of God, but I very much doubt that Daniel thought in terms of the clay of Daniel 2 (the people being formed by God) becoming divided.

JSE

Duncan's picture

John,

Yes, Vespasian was king in AD 70, Titus was just a general, a little horn if you will (Dan. 7:7-8). Ultimately the king in Rev. 17 was to come out of the abyss (Rev. 11:7; 17:8) he was a demonic ruler (cf. Dan. 10:13), the demonic prince of the Roman people (cf. Dan. 10:20-21) that worked through Titus in his 3 1/2 year campaign against Israel (Dan. 7:23-27). It should be noted that Vespasian only warred against Daniel's people for about 2 1/2 years. In mid AD 69 his attention turned to taking over the Roman Empire. It was Titus who finished the extra year that makes the 3 1/2 years of a time and times and half a time (cf. Dan. 12:7).

Duncan

ThomasS's picture

However, both Titus and the Roman Empire were more powerful after 70 CE than before.

So much for the beast/its little horn being killed in 70 CE...

But, hey, I guess that part of the prophecy only applies to the, invisible, "demonic ruler"? How convenient...

Regards

Th.S.

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